Solar power systems for the home

[Suave]

Originally Posted by photon

I've got a 12kW system.
Just got my Enmax bill, I'm at 8.79 cents I haven't switched to the higher rate for summer yet this is my first year:

May 23 to June 21 I used 450kWh for $40 in electricity
June 1 to July 7 I generated 1232kWh for $108 in credit

Administration, distribution, etc all added up to $81 so I paid $13 out of pocket still.

If it'd been on the 30 cent plan I'd have paid $135 for electricity but I'd have made $370.

However the administration and distribution fees scale up as well from what I've been told but I don't know to what degree, maybe someone can give the details on that?

But looking at that that's a lot more than I was thinking so it seems like it's totally worth while switching plans for the summer since the last bill I'd have stored up a bunch of credit for the winter.

They don't really scale up, here is breakdown from my May invoice:

New Charges
Electric Energy Charges - ENMAX Energy Corporation (Easymax Seasonal Solar)
Energy Charge ......................................418.000 kWh @ $ 0.300000 / kWh ...........$ 125.40 *
(May 1 to Jun 1)
Administration Charge .................................................. .................................................$ 10.52*
(May 1 to Jun 1)
Microgeneration Credit .......................1,886.000 kWh @ $ 0.300000 / kWh ...........$ 565.80 * CR
(May 1 to Jun 1)
Delivery Charges - ENMAX Power
(May 1 to Jun 1)
kWh

'24 '25
AV COST / DAY $-11.72
Distribution Charge .................................................. .................................................. ... $ 30.92*
Transmission Charge .................................................. ................................................. $ 16.54*
Balancing Pool Allocation .................................................. ............................................. $ 0.56*
Rate Riders .................................................. .................................................. ................ $ 0.33*
Local access fee paid to CALGARY .................................................. ...........................$ 6.48 *
Summary .................................................. .................................................. ...................$ 375.05 CR

[photon]

Ok I need to switch right away.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by #-3

Well for what it's worth that is ~ 30% higher than the price Skyfire gave me in March, just fudging some rough numbers.

$49k / 16 = ~$3.0K/kw

$30k / 13 = ~$2.3K/kw

you system seems huge, I'm guessing you're the go to guy for some great hydroponic ####.

FWIW, my 31 panel 14Kw system from February was right at the $2.30/watt as well.

SF, if you are looking to move in 7 - 8 years the loan will follow you so all you are doing is putting in and paying for a system for the next homeowner that will probably more than cover 2x their usage.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Barnes

FWIW, my 31 panel 14Kw system from February was right at the $2.30/watt as well.

SF, if you are looking to move in 7 - 8 years the loan will follow you so all you are doing is putting in and paying for a system for the next homeowner that will probably more than cover 2x their usage.

I'd probably agree if you aren't committed to your house for 5+ years, it might not be the most worthwhile endeavor.

But it is an 10 year loan that costs ~$3000 / year. and in general I expect these panels should add ~$20,000 + in value to the house, maybe declining ~$1000 / year. So in theory if I were to sell the house in 8 years, I might still have ~$6000 left on a loan, but I should pocket ~$12,000 in cash from the sale.

*depending on the rate the panels degrade, and the rate that energy prices inflate they might even hold there value better than that, but home buyers will be smart enough to know that a system that reduces your utilities bills has value for the property itself.

I Also doubt 8 years from now the system would be overbuilt. It will probably be producing ~11,000 kwh annually instead of 13,000, because of degradation. Realistically that is probably only ~20% higher than the average house today, and with growing AC adoption and EV use... I think it's pretty likely the average house in Calgary is consuming more than 11,000 KWH / year in 8 years.

16KW seems like a big system to me, knowing just how many EV KMs I put on to get to 13KW

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by #-3

I'd probably agree if you aren't committed to your house for 5+ years, it might not be the most worthwhile endeavor.

But it is an 10 year loan that costs ~$3000 / year. and in general I expect these panels should add ~$20,000 + in value to the house, maybe declining ~$1000 / year. So in theory if I were to sell the house in 8 years, I might still have ~$6000 left on a loan, but I should pocket ~$12,000 in cash from the sale.

*depending on the rate the panels degrade, and the rate that energy prices inflate they might even hold there value better than that, but home buyers will be smart enough to know that a system that reduces your utilities bills has value for the property itself.

I Also doubt 8 years from now the system would be overbuilt. It will probably be producing ~11,000 kwh annually instead of 13,000, because of degradation. Realistically that is probably only ~20% higher than the average house today, and with growing AC adoption and EV use... I think it's pretty likely the average house in Calgary is consuming more than 11,000 KWH / year in 8 years.

16KW seems like a big system to me, knowing just how many EV KMs I put on to get to 13KW

We'd be sub $2/watt for a 16kw system. Why did they give you two options, 13 vs 16kWh, since you mention there was a lot of EV usage to get you to 13kW? Were you looking at further appliance/EV additions?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Barnes

FWIW, my 31 panel 14Kw system from February was right at the $2.30/watt as well.

SF, if you are looking to move in 7 - 8 years the loan will follow you so all you are doing is putting in and paying for a system for the next homeowner that will probably more than cover 2x their usage.

Yeah that's my number one hold up...when I try to sell I'll have a 13k liability (less if it was more competitively priced) and Im skeptical that a buyer will care. Yet that's who essentially will get all of the benefit.

Plus I work as a draftsman in the Steel business...Im probably unemployed in 6 months, and likely replaced by AI in 3 if I don't get canned. Best not be spending.

[the-rasta-masta]

Interesting release today from Charge Solar. Charge is the largest wholesaler of Solar products in Canada and is who most installation companies will order equipment through. They would be pretty connected to Greener Homes Program/Government, and they announced they are anticipating the Interest Free Loan will be full for applications by November of this year.

https://www.chargesolar.com/incentiv...ar-installers/

[#-3]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

We'd be sub $2/watt for a 16kw system. Why did they give you two options, 13 vs 16kWh, since you mention there was a lot of EV usage to get you to 13kW? Were you looking at further appliance/EV additions?

the 16 KW system was SFs quote, I was comparing our quotes. they actually said my roof would be capped out at 13KW, with 2 EVs and a lot of KMs my usage is actually a little higher,

[Torture]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Interesting release today from Charge Solar. Charge is the largest wholesaler of Solar products in Canada and is who most installation companies will order equipment through. They would be pretty connected to Greener Homes Program/Government, and they announced they are anticipating the Interest Free Loan will be full for applications by November of this year.

https://www.chargesolar.com/incentiv...ar-installers/

Betcha it goes faster than Nov 2025 too, now that there's likelihood of the money running out folks will be eager to get in before it closes.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Torture

Betcha it goes faster than Nov 2025 too, now that there's likelihood of the money running out folks will be eager to get in before it closes.

For sure. I remember in November 2023 when they announced the grant was going to be closing for applications, they gave a date of March 31st, 2024. It ended up closing a month and a half earlier than that in February 2024.

They did re-inject 600 million in December, and we have a budget coming out in the Fall from the feds, so things could change and it could be extended, but as things stand not long for the program.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by #-3

I Also doubt 8 years from now the system would be overbuilt. It will probably be producing ~11,000 kwh annually instead of 13,000, because of degradation. Realistically that is probably only ~20% higher than the average house today, and with growing AC adoption and EV use... I think it's pretty likely the average house in Calgary is consuming more than 11,000 KWH / year in 8 years.

16KW seems like a big system to me, knowing just how many EV KMs I put on to get to 13KW

I don't think power usage in the average house is going to decrease anytime soon either. The degradation on the panels does seem a bit high to me. I would be thinking maybe 10% at the very high end over that time frame.

I do have an in-law suite in the basement that is occupied by my Mom who is home a lot of the time. So that is why I have an extra Fridge, Dishwasher, Washer and Dryer down there. I also keep two Freezers in my garage...so I do think I consume the electricity and could cut out a few things and get my usage down. But I would sill make the system as large as I could because within 15 years I'm sure I would have at least one Electric vehicle, if not two. and possibly even sooner.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I don't think power usage in the average house is going to decrease anytime soon either. The degradation on the panels does seem a bit high to me. I would be thinking maybe 10% at the very high end over that time frame.

I do have an in-law suite in the basement that is occupied by my Mom who is home a lot of the time. So that is why I have an extra Fridge, Dishwasher, Washer and Dryer down there. I also keep two Freezers in my garage...so I do think I consume the electricity and could cut out a few things and get my usage down. But I would sill make the system as large as I could because within 15 years I'm sure I would have at least one Electric vehicle, if not two. and possibly even sooner.

The new Tier 1 TOPCON technology panels (Longi LR7 and LR8 series) degrade at 0.4% annually. They have a 30 year power warranty, you are guaranteed at least 87.4% of your initial production after 30 years, or it would have been switched out for a new panel under warranty.

Previous generation (likely the 385-410w range if you're wondering) typically had 0.55% degradation on a Tier 1 panel, with 25 year power warranties guaranteeing you 84.7% of initial production after 25 years.

[photon]

Yeah 85% after 25 years I think is what I was told mine would be.