Israel declares war on Hamas

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well two points, I assume you are in Canada, when are we moving back to Europe and giving all of this back to the people we stole it from? we aint, we want someone else to be moral, we dont want to be though, we Canadaians are just as guilty, have and continue to kill and oppress just as many Natives as Israel does Palestinians

Second, as I pointed out, if I could change things I would but I can't and I choose not to be either a hypocrite or a fool, I don't support any brutal theocratic state any where so I am not in favour of setting one up in the levant under Hamas, that doesn't mean I like what Israel is doing

This is basically the trolley problem, which side do you want to get slaughtered? I choose neither

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize there was an active war and murdering happening between Canada and the Indigenous populations, with no treaties or anything signed between the two parties. Can you point me to some news on this, because I’d really like to read about it?

It’s not hypocritical to think that Canada has treated indigenous people poorly in the past, so when something like Israel’s genocide is happening currently, right before our eyes, we should step up and do something about it.

What’s disgusting is saying that we should just let Israel take over Palestine and ethnically cleanse the land because if we didn’t, we’d be hypocrites because of what Canada did to the indigenous population.

This is Pointman levels of disgusting.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I’m sorry, I didn’t realize there was an active war and murdering happening between Canada and the Indigenous populations, with no treaties or anything signed between the two parties. Can you point me to some news on this, because I’d really like to read about it?

It’s not hypocritical to think that Canada has treated indigenous people poorly in the past, so when something like Israel’s genocide is happening currently, right before our eyes, we should step up and do something about it.

What’s disgusting is saying that we should just let Israel take over Palestine and ethnically cleanse the land because if we didn’t, we’d be hypocrites because of what Canada did to the indigenous population.

This is Pointman levels of disgusting.

well I have news for you, we are crapping daily on our Native population, they live 10 years less than us on average, they live lives of poverty without access to clean water, we won the war and have cowed our indigenous population utterly by killing enough of them.

What you are saying is because we have beaten our natives into utter submission we're ok.

As to what we do about Israel, well we have no power, Israel can do what it wants, as we did to our natives, there is nothing we can do to alter things in Israel which is ironically what gives you the ability to take your 'moral' position, you can support Gaza safe in the knowledge that Hamas will never be in a position to slaughter millions of jews

Unlike you I just thought through what Hamas 'winning' would look like and realised I'm not ok with that either

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

What’s disgusting is saying that we should just let Israel take over Palestine and ethnically cleanse the land because if we didn’t, we’d be hypocrites because of what Canada did to the indigenous population.

What do you propose Canada do?

Israel was attacked by Hamas and has responded with the ethnic cleansing of the entire region. They clearly aren't going to stop. Hamas isn't going to stop either as they literally believe they're all going to heaven, and sending a good portion of the Palestinian population along with them.

End of the day - both sides are complete sh-t, and nothing Canada or the UN, or any nation aside from maybe the US could stop it.

The US is a racist monarchy now, and they love killing brown people.

So what should Canada do?

[Bill Bumface]

Guys, dead innocent children sucks, but remember it's just war. War is bad, but the other guys started it, so the dead kids are really their fault.

[afc wimbledon]

Ok here's an exercise for you to try out, what outcome in Israel Palestine brings the least death and pain to the least number of people and is practical, not what you or I might like, that everyone stops hating everyone else and both sides give up vast chunks of what they perceive as their God given land, we both would like this but it aint happening, Israel aint giving up anything ever, the longer the war goes on the more Palestinians lose.

So how can the Palestinians keep the most of what little they have? how do they stop Israel bombing them? how do they enable food to flow into Gaza?

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Ok here's an exercise for you to try out, what outcome in Israel Palestine brings the least death and pain to the least number of people and is practical, not what you or I might like, that everyone stops hating everyone else and both sides give up vast chunks of what they perceive as their God given land, we both would like this but it aint happening, Israel aint giving up anything ever, the longer the war goes on the more Palestinians lose.

So how can the Palestinians keep the most of what little they have? how do they stop Israel bombing them? how do they enable food to flow into Gaza?

The only realistic way it stops is if the Israeli populace turns on the Netanyahu govt and forces a cease fire. That's pretty unlikely at this point but the Palestinian's best chance.

Trump dies leaving couch f-er Vance in the white house and the the Democratic party takes both houses in the midterms, and cuts all military funding for Israel, and starts economic sanctions. Again, super unlikely given teflon Don's life so far and how uneducated the US population is.

If Hamas lost a Palestinian civil war, and surrendered all hostages and laid down their weapons, Israel might briefly pause the ethnic cleansing until the next terror attack. Probably not happening, but Iran has been neutered, so Hamas may be weaker now than at any point in the past 30 years.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

The only realistic way it stops is if the Israeli populace turns on the Netanyahu govt and forces a cease fire. That's pretty unlikely at this point but the Palestinian's best chance.

Trump dies leaving couch f-er Vance in the white house and the the Democratic party takes both houses in the midterms, and cuts all military funding for Israel, and starts economic sanctions. Again, super unlikely given teflon Don's life so far and how uneducated the US population is.

If Hamas lost a Palestinian civil war, and surrendered all hostages and laid down their weapons, Israel might briefly pause the ethnic cleansing until the next terror attack. Probably not happening, but Iran has been neutered, so Hamas may be weaker now than at any point in the past 30 years.

None of this will happen though, Israeli's overwhelmingly support the war, the Dems aint cutting support for Israel either, at this point abject surrender is the best outcome for Palestinians

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well I have news for you, we are crapping daily on our Native population, they live 10 years less than us on average, they live lives of poverty without access to clean water, we won the war and have cowed our indigenous population utterly by killing enough of them.

What you are saying is because we have beaten our natives into utter submission we're ok.

As to what we do about Israel, well we have no power, Israel can do what it wants, as we did to our natives, there is nothing we can do to alter things in Israel which is ironically what gives you the ability to take your 'moral' position, you can support Gaza safe in the knowledge that Hamas will never be in a position to slaughter millions of jews

Unlike you I just thought through what Hamas 'winning' would look like and realised I'm not ok with that either

Holy ####, I guess we’re back at “criticizing Israel means you support Hamas”.

You are just as clueless and pointless to debate with as Pointman.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Holy ####, I guess we’re back at “criticizing Israel means you support Hamas”.

You are just as clueless and pointless to debate with as Pointman.

It is a binary choice, there are only two sides to the war, who do you want to win?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

None of this will happen though, Israeli's overwhelmingly support the war, the Dems aint cutting support for Israel either, at this point abject surrender is the best outcome for Palestinians

Your info is outdated, most Israelis want it to end.


https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/nx-s1...ar-in-gaza-end

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Your info is outdated, most Israelis want it to end.


https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/nx-s1...ar-in-gaza-end

polls show 2/3rds of Israelis support the war, they certainly dont seem to be putting any pressure on their government to end things

[jayswin]

Can we see these polls that are current, then? Fuzz provided something, you countered with "polls".

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Can we see these polls that are current, then? Fuzz provided something, you countered with "polls".

24 May 2025


"An overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews support the transfer of Palestinians from Gaza, according to a poll by Pennsylvania State University.

The survey, conducted in March and published by Haaretz newspaper on Thursday, found that 82 percent of Israeli Jews support the forced expulsion of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip.

Meanwhile, 47 percent of Israeli Jews answered yes to the question: "Do you support the claim that the [Israeli army] in conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites did when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, ie to kill all its inhabitants?" The reference is to the biblical account of the conquest of Jericho.

Earlier this month, Israel launched the "Operation Gideon's Chariots" in the besieged strip, which, according to the Israeli news outlet Ynet, is intended to advance US President Donald Trump's plan to "clean out" Gaza.

Ynet reported that during the operation, the Israeli army plans to push as many Palestinians as possible towards the Rafah area in the southern Gaza Strip, where food and aid will be delivered. The new military plan is also aimed at promoting the "voluntary emigration" of Palestinians, according to Ynet.


The new plan has garnered support among the majority of the Israeli public, even though the Israeli army's chief of staff, Eyal Zamir, warned that it would pose a danger to the lives of the Israeli captives in Gaza.

According to a separate Channel 13 poll, 44 percent of the Israeli public supports the operation while 40 percent oppose it.

The same poll showed that the Israeli public also supports the continuation of the full blockade that Israel has imposed on the Gaza Strip since the beginning of March. It found that 53 percent of the Israeli public think that Israel should not allow humanitarian aid into the enclave.

Earlier this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that one of Israel's war goals is to implement Trump's proposed plan to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.

At a press conference, Netanyahu said that he was willing to end the war but only "under clear conditions that will ensure the safety of Israel: all the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, steps down from power, its leadership is exiled from the strip".

"And we carry out the Trump plan - a plan that is so correct and so revolutionary," he added.

Secular public supports expulsion
According to the Penn State poll, support for the mass expulsion of Palestinians from the enclave was also found among 70 percent of the secular Jewish public, parts of which are considered liberal. Meanwhile, support among the Masortim (traditionalists), religious, and ultra-Orthodox communities exceeds 90 percent.

The sweeping and cross-political and social support for the expulsion of Palestinians does not stop at the borders of the occupied Gaza Strip. According to the poll, 56 percent of Israeli Jews support the expulsion of Palestinian citizens of Israel from their land.

While the highest levels of support for the move were recorded amongst the Masortim, religious, and ultra-Orthodox communities, exceeding 60 percent, there was also significant backing among the secular public. Thirty-eight percent of secular Israeli Jews support the expulsion of Palestinian citizens of Israel from the country, the poll reported.

Commenting on the results survey, Shay Hazkani, a professor of history and Jewish studies at the University of Maryland, and Tamir Sorek, a professor in the history department at Penn State University, wrote: "There are those who see the shock and anxiety that befell the Israeli public in the wake of the events of October 7th as the only explanation for this radicalization.

"But the massacre only seems to have unleashed demons that have been nurtured over decades in the media and in the legal and educational systems."

Throughout the war, Israeli media outlets have echoed calls for the expulsion and killing of Palestinians. Recently, Israeli human rights organisations submitted a request to the Supreme Court to open an investigation against Channel 14, seen as loyal to Netanyahu, on suspicion of "incitement to genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity".

The education system has also played a role in shaping extremist views among young Israelis. Hazkani and Sorek say that since the early 2000s, it has undergone a process of radicalisation.

According to the poll, only 9 percent of Jewish men under the age of 40, representing most of the soldiers in regular and reserve duty, were fully opposed to the ideas of expulsion and transfer."

[Fuzz]

I think that comes down to two things. One, that's a month and a half old. Two, it doesn't answer what you posed, which was "2/3rds of Israelis support the war". Reading the wording of the questions you presented, it's easy to see that Israelis don't want the war to continue, but also have some pretty monstrous views on how it should end.


Supporting expelling Palestinians does not mean they support a continued war, that's just what they would be OK with for the war to end. Supporting genocide ("47 percent of Israeli Jews answered yes to the question...ie to kill all its inhabitants?") is also a desire for the war to end. The Final Solution would end the threats from Palestinians, I'm not sure it would end wars against Israel. But logic isn't really a strong point in these plans.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think that comes down to two things. One, that's a month and a half old. Two, it doesn't answer what you posed, which was "2/3rds of Israelis support the war". Reading the wording of the questions you presented, it's easy to see that Israelis don't want the war to continue, but also have some pretty monstrous views on how it should end.


Supporting expelling Palestinians does not mean they support a continued war, that's just what they would be OK with for the war to end. Supporting genocide ("47 percent of Israeli Jews answered yes to the question...ie to kill all its inhabitants?") is also a desire for the war to end. The Final Solution would end the threats from Palestinians, I'm not sure it would end wars against Israel. But logic isn't really a strong point in these plans.

You may be right but it doesn't alter my point, Israeli's arent that bothered by the invasion, Israel right now is where the US was after 9/11, angry and wanting retribution, the mood has and will subside as time goes on but the idea Israeli's are in any large part against the war is foolish, they just arent which is why the war goes on, why the IDF operates with imunity, because they arent worried about a backlash