Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > The Off Topic Forum
Register Forum Rules FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-09-2025, 10:38 AM   #2181
firebug
Powerplay Quarterback
 
firebug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mayor of McKenzie Towne
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
The Air Current has an update of the Air India crash from last month

Air India crash investigation focuses on movement of engine fuel control switches
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...trol-switches/
Aka - Intentional murder/suicide by one of the pilots (or someone else on the flight deck).
__________________
"Teach a man to reason, and he'll think for a lifetime"

~P^2
firebug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2025, 10:46 AM   #2182
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

Yep
KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2025, 11:48 AM   #2183
btimbit
Franchise Player
 
btimbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit View Post
I'm told that if I give him an hour or so he can send me some even better shots, but here's some for now

Spoiler!

Few more

Spoiler!


Also trying to get his approval to share all the G7 pics now that it's been a few weeks but we'll see
btimbit is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to btimbit For This Useful Post:
Old 07-09-2025, 11:55 AM   #2184
sa226
#1 Goaltender
 
sa226's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Back in Calgary!!
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
The Air Current has an update of the Air India crash from last month

Air India crash investigation focuses on movement of engine fuel control switches
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...trol-switches/

I'm concerned with how much politics could influence the final report with this.

Unless I missed it, the article didn't mention the final position of the fuel control switches. Only perhaps that they were actioned. If the crew experienced a double engine roll back, the first memory item in the checklist is to turn off, then on the fuel control switches.

So this article could shed some light, or it could be much ado about nothing.
sa226 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sa226 For This Useful Post:
Old 07-09-2025, 12:36 PM   #2185
Bigtime
Franchise Player
 
Bigtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa226 View Post
I'm concerned with how much politics could influence the final report with this.

Unless I missed it, the article didn't mention the final position of the fuel control switches. Only perhaps that they were actioned. If the crew experienced a double engine roll back, the first memory item in the checklist is to turn off, then on the fuel control switches.

So this article could shed some light, or it could be much ado about nothing.
Interesting, I understand it being a memory item but do you know if any training is given to a scenario that is that low to the ground after departure? Or just better to make it a "muscle memory" reaction regardless of altitude?
Bigtime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2025, 12:37 PM   #2186
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

Oh those were moved intentionally 100% but why is the question.
KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2025, 01:03 PM   #2187
sa226
#1 Goaltender
 
sa226's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Back in Calgary!!
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Interesting, I understand it being a memory item but do you know if any training is given to a scenario that is that low to the ground after departure? Or just better to make it a "muscle memory" reaction regardless of altitude?
I can't speak to Air India's training. But it wouldn't be typical training event, no.

With a duel engine failure at that altitude you're kind of in desperation mode anyway, and you back that up with your training and system knowledge. Sort of like how Sully turned on the APU out of sequence with the checklist.

I hesitate to call it muscle memory, even though it kind of is. You don't want pilots just flipping fuel control switches at the first sign of trouble. A typical duel engine fail scenario in training would be at a higher altitude and both pilots would positively identify the failure and call for the checklist before switches are actioned. But you can't prepare a checklist or SOP for every single scenario, so training, experience and system knowledge comes into play in scenarios like this.

We're deep into hypotheticals now though.
sa226 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sa226 For This Useful Post:
Old 07-09-2025, 04:59 PM   #2188
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit View Post
Few more

Spoiler!


Also trying to get his approval to share all the G7 pics now that it's been a few weeks but we'll see
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans

If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Locke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2025, 04:14 PM   #2189
DownInFlames
Craig McTavish' Merkin
 
DownInFlames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Exp:
Default

Great video of the AN-124 by Alex.


DownInFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DownInFlames For This Useful Post:
Old 07-10-2025, 05:09 PM   #2190
btimbit
Franchise Player
 
btimbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. George's, Grenada
Exp:
Default

Oh hey, my buddy is in that video a few times

Or at least his truck is
btimbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2025, 02:53 PM   #2191
Bigtime
Franchise Player
 
Bigtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Update on the Air India investigation:

Quote:
Both engine fuel cutoff switches were moved from RUN to CUTOFF almost immediately after takeoff, within 1 second of each other. CVR captured audio of both pilots denying having touched it.
https://bsky.app/profile/airlineflye.../3ltpofvzeec2f
Bigtime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2025, 02:59 PM   #2192
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

If the switches moved on their own then the 787 would be grounded by now.

They don't just move on their own, someone moved them.
KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2025, 03:00 PM   #2193
Bigtime
Franchise Player
 
Bigtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
If the switches moved on their own then the 787 would be grounded by now.

They don't just move on their own, someone moved them.
Yuuup. Impressive what the plane did automatically after the event:

Quote:
As for the Boeing 787, it seems the aircraft did everything it could to save itself. When the fuel cutoff switches led to engine power below idle thrust the RAT auto deployed to provide hydraulics. The APU began auto start. When fuel switches moved back to RUN, the FADEC tried to relight the engines
Bigtime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2025, 03:06 PM   #2194
KelVarnsen
Franchise Player
 
KelVarnsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Apartment 5A
Exp:
Default

I watched this earlier today, explains how the switches work.

KelVarnsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:17 PM.

Calgary Flames
2024-25




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021 | See Our Privacy Policy