Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

That's a pretty baseless assumption; like so many things, it depends who you talk to.

If I have a cold, I don't go out and hang out with people.

The end. It's easy; I'm sick, I'm miserable and feel like ass and don't want to do anything.

Do you genuinely think I care if I'm sick with [random cold bug] or COVID? No, I don't give a sh-t: I'm sick, that's all the information I need to inform my behaviour.

I mean, you should care whether you have COVID as opposed to some random cold. While the severity is lower now with mutations, widespread immunity, and vaccinations, it's still about 4-5x as likely to cause severe complications (hospitalization and death) compared to the flu and far more than that compared to colds.

For a younger healthy person the objective risk of complications is still very low. But if you interact with the elderly, young kids, or someone with comorbidities at all, then it's not a trivial distinction.

Now maybe you do stay home the moment you get a sniffle, a dry throat, or whatever, but that's really not the reality for basically anyone. And lumping COVID in with mostly benign seasonal respiratory viruses through things like messaging, reduced access to vaccines, and poor availability of testing is unquestionably a public health mistake. There's a reason why the all-cause mortality rate around the world is still significantly elevated compared to pre-COVID.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I mean, you should care whether you have COVID as opposed to some random cold. While the severity is lower now with mutations, widespread immunity, and vaccinations, it's still about 4-5x as likely to cause severe complications (hospitalization and death) compared to the flu and far more than that compared to colds.

To get back to the original remarks that inspired TorqueDog’s comments, what do you think should be done about public gatherings like Stampede? What should governments and the public do about them in the face of endemic Covid?

Even taking into account the increased likelihood of severe complications, how should we institutionally and socially treat this differently from the flu and other contagious respiratory illnesses that are endemic in the community?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Do you think they did that to be sneaky or because it is easier to move heavy equipment when highways and local roads are less busy during the overnight hours?

I think that the point is, that they are moving in equipment as if they have already been promised that it's usage will be required. It's as if they have a special looking glass that allows them to see into the future, where the opportunity to mine the eastern slopes have been granted.

We all know that access to special looking glasses is heavily restricted by the alberta government. I couldn't even imagine the amount of money a chrunchy Aussie psychopath would have to pay to get to use one.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

To get back to the original remarks that inspired TorqueDog’s comments, what do you think should be done about public gatherings like Stampede? What should governments and the public do about them in the face of endemic Covid?

Even taking into account the increased likelihood of severe complications, how should we institutionally and socially treat this differently from the flu and other contagious respiratory illnesses that are endemic in the community?

Obviously there's only so much you can do and I don't think any reasonable person is suggesting cancelling public gatherings or anything. But they should really prioritize prevention where possible. So encouraging regular vaccination among vulnerable populations (rather than scaling back programs), widespread availability of no or low-cost testing, and probably improving standards for air quality indoors, though that last one is more of a long-term thing.

And messaging could be a lot better as well. It seems like they've intentionally rolled COVID into the normal respiratory virus category, but it's not. It's more severe than others, it doesn't really follow a seasonal pattern, and it's more likely to cause long-term non-respiratory symptoms.

Obviously the vast majority of the population is still probably going to ignore all that, but I was mainly taking issue with conflating COVID with things like colds. The health burden of COVID is still pretty significant and people should really treat it as such. For instance, the current level of all-cause mortality in Canada vs the 2015-2019 period is roughly equivalent to the increased mortality rate of having a BMI of 35 (obese) vs. 25 (normal weight).

[woob]

People just don't care about COVID anymore. (which is not an endorsement by me)

And if you want to wave the flag about governments doing more to protect citizen's health, then we should also see messaging around alcohol consumption, STDs/safe sex, drinking and driving, etc. etc. at all Stampede events.

[TorqueDog]

All of Fuzz's suggestions are voluntary and rooted in education. Those take time, and require public buy-in, which this population has shown an undue amount of resistance to in spite of having plenty of facts thrown its way. We actually had those things once upon a time and we've still arrived to this point. I think the experiment has failed successfully.

Originally Posted by opendoor

I mean, you should care whether you have COVID as opposed to some random cold. While the severity is lower now with mutations, widespread immunity, and vaccinations, it's still about 4-5x as likely to cause severe complications (hospitalization and death) compared to the flu and far more than that compared to colds.

But practically, why? This information serves no purpose to me. It isn't informing my behaviour, not any differently than knowing I have any other cold or flu. If I'm sick, I'm not going out to get meds, or lunch, or anything. I'm taking some cold & flu Benelyn, ordering in food, and sitting around playing video games until I feel better (and still working from home on days where I feel okay-ish).

There's no benefit to me knowing, I can't do anything any differently than I'm already doing -- besides, I'm on what, shot 5 or 6 now? At this point, my body encountering COVID should be like running over a carton of eggs in an M4 Sherman.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by troutman

I’m hearing Northback moved some heavy equipment to Grassy Mountain under the cover of night.

Heavy equipment is almost always moved down highways and roadways at night to avoid being amongst regular traffic as much as possible. It's standard operating procedure.

[puffnstuff]

Perhaps its not about when they are moving it...but that they are moving coal mining equipment before they 'officially' have permission to mine. More along the lines of what Harry wrote

[Codes]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

There's no benefit to me knowing, I can't do anything any differently than I'm already doing -- besides, I'm on what, shot 5 or 6 now? At this point, my body encountering COVID should be like running over a carton of eggs in an M4 Sherman.

I just wanted to touch on this point.

Viruses, especially SARS-CoV-2 and influenza, have the propensity to change relatively rapidly. This can render immunity from prior infections and/or vaccinations less effective or even ineffective. That's why vaccine formulations are reviewed annually for these viruses.

So you might not be as tanky as you think!

From a public health perspective, though, what actually matters is we now have another endemic virus further burdening the health care system. Not to mention the ongoing measles epidemic.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

But practically, why? This information serves no purpose to me. It isn't informing my behaviour, not any differently than knowing I have any other cold or flu. If I'm sick, I'm not going out to get meds, or lunch, or anything. I'm taking some cold & flu Benelyn, ordering in food, and sitting around playing video games until I feel better (and still working from home on days where I feel okay-ish).

I have the same question. I have friends who still test every time they get sick. I don't see the point, when nothing would change for me. If it gets serious enough that I need medical care, they can test then.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

though requiring a vaccine passport for the Cowboys tent could be a fun thing to do too.

#### off. Just stay in your basement.

[PepsiFree]

Maybe we could get crazy and just go back to encouraging vaccinations and making them free and readily available.

I know, extreme leftists are wild. What can I say.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Perhaps its not about when they are moving it...but that they are moving coal mining equipment before they 'officially' have permission to mine. More along the lines of what Harry wrote

Troutman was specifically making the post under a nefarious nature though. Oh no, the big bad resource companies are doing things under the cover of darkness because doing it during the day would be "bad".

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Codes

I just wanted to touch on this point.

Viruses, especially SARS-CoV-2 and influenza, have the propensity to change relatively rapidly. This can render immunity from prior infections and/or vaccinations less effective or even ineffective. That's why vaccine formulations are reviewed annually for these viruses.

So you might not be as tanky as you think!

From a public health perspective, though, what actually matters is we now have another endemic virus further burdening the health care system. Not to mention the ongoing measles epidemic.

If I'm not mistaken, based on my limited understanding, these viruses also tend to weaken over time as they evolve.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Troutman was specifically making the post under a nefarious nature though. Oh no, the big bad resource companies are doing things under the cover of darkness because doing it during the day would be "bad".

This big bad resource company, owned by Gina Reinhardt, has an exploration permit. They have been conducting those exercises for months (years?), and all of the sudden start moving heavy equipment.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If I'm not mistaken, based on my limited understanding..

I wish you'd start all your posts with that.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If I'm not mistaken, based on my limited understanding, these viruses also tend to weaken over time as they evolve.

I’m not an expert either, but have family who are in the medical profession, and my understanding from them is this is a myth. I found out because I expressed the same position you just did and was firmly corrected by people who know better than I do.

And it makes sense. Mutations are random; there is not likely to be any tendency for a virus to “weaken” in an epidemiological sense over time.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

#### off. Just stay in your basement.

LOL. Rough night of Stampeding?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe we could get crazy and just go back to encouraging vaccinations and making them free and readily available.

I know, extreme leftists are wild. What can I say.

Funny how advocating for normal rational positions that ultimately save money, like Cowboys Tent Vaccines(CTV's), just sets some of these socially progressive fiscal conservatives off.

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

If I'm not mistaken, based on my limited understanding, these viruses also tend to weaken over time as they evolve.

Where do you think "new" pathogenic viruses come from? They don't appear from thin air.

Think about Ebola outbreaks.

What about the constant stream of highly pathogenic influenza viruses?