[News] Brent Seabrook added to Flames Player Development staff

[Ped]

It depends whether he was hired by the Flames or the Oilers apparently.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So Brent seabrook is good or evil?

You have to wade through the pitchforks and torches to find out

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So Brent seabrook is good or evil?

Yes.

[MikePatton]

I think there is truth to the idea that intolerance begets contempt. It's also true that the prevailing approach to freedom of expression is that any expression deliberately harmful is often not tolerated.

With that said -

Blaming one person's strong opinion on a contentious matter for enabling generative homophobia is TRULY wild. That is moving into full throttle antagonism. There are always far better ways to engage with someone in disagreement with you.

Edit: just reflecting on what I just read over the last page.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Ped

It depends whether he was hired by the Flames or the Oilers apparently.

Basically. If the Oilers hired him this thread would be quadruple the length and all posts bashing Seabrook and Oilers management.

I'm not even saying I'm agreeing or disagreeing, but 100% the comments would flip 180 from a lot of posters.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Basically. If the Oilers hired him this thread would be quadruple the length and all posts bashing Seabrook and Oilers management.

I'm not even saying I'm agreeing or disagreeing, but 100% the comments would flip 180 from a lot of posters.

That would even be understandable to a degree. The Flames have a history of valuing good character in the people they hire, and quickly getting rid of people like Bill Peters and Dillon Dube once their offences came to light. The Oilers, on the other hand, seem to collect scum, starting with an owner who tried to run a Hollywood casting couch. One team definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt more than the other.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Basically. If the Oilers hired him this thread would be quadruple the length and all posts bashing Seabrook and Oilers management.

I'm not even saying I'm agreeing or disagreeing, but 100% the comments would flip 180 from a lot of posters.

If the Oilers hired him, posters would have more valid reason to bash them because the hire was made by a team owned by Katz and run by Stan Bowman who was essentially one of the most guilty party of all. It would be more valid because they lack credibility.

But because the hire was made by the Flames who are currently run by Craig Conroy and Jarome Iginla was named by Seabrook directly in his press conference--- by questioning and bashing the hiring, you are indirectly questioning the character/morals of Conroy/Iginla. And I am absolutely not on board with that. Both of them have proven over a long period of time that they are individuals of the highest character.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And you're irrelevant. See ya.

Who are you upset with? The Flames management or the fans. I could understand if this was a recent incident but this is already been handled by the NHL and some of these surrounding members have been educated and then re-instated. The NHL is evolving, as is many other industries with how they handle different situations. We have seen this with bullying as well, it is a process of people coming together to recognize a lot of old traditions and attitudes needed to change.

The problem I see is that you've brought this topic up as if you're mad at the Flames management, or the fans without acknowledging the fact that there's been a lot of work done in this area (and still lots of work tcan be done), and that some of these people are being reinstated and allowed back into better situations and support systems. You yourself know that you've done stuff in your life that you probably regret, or things that probably deserve some type of punishment; It will be interesting to tell us why you are able to move forward with new opportunities? We can admit that the NHL has been stricter about abusive situations between players and families; A progressive step towards creating positive attitudes and outcomes.

It is just surprising that you're taking such a strong stance, especially when you don't know the total involvement of that particular individua? I think a lot of attitudes have changed, it is a process. Some credit should prevail especially towards opportunities for certain people to be rehabilitated and reinstated because it shows progress. I am pretty sure you've made mistakes in your life that you regret, and you've had opportunities to learn and move forward. It's just surprising that you ae making such a big fuss towards someone that you don't even know his total involvement, Don't you think that's a bit unfair?

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In this case, one resident committed a crime, and (outside of a few noted individuals) the rest either covered it up, protected the criminal, abused/mocked the victim, or enabled/ignored that behaviour.

Nobody is hanging the whole village. Just holding people accountable. I don’t believe anyone is suggesting the same punishment Aldrich got (years later, when he was actually caught after the org enabled him to reoffend).

This isn’t even an issue that’s relegated to the past. Another victim is taking the Blackhawks to trial in October.

This is offensive and just as bad as what Blaster is doing. None of your allegations are supported by evidence.

The only 'cover-up' was that McDonough delayed reporting it for three weeks. This was wrong. Not sure it counts as a cover-up and it is all on McDonough.

Who protected the criminal? To be fair, the alleged abuser, in this instance, but unless you are counting the delay above and the ability to participate in the cup celebration as 'protecting him', then there is no evidence that anyone protected him. I can see the delay in notifying HR and allowing him to participate as ####ty decisions but I don't see that as 'protecting' him like we have seen in the past in many different instances of abuse.

We have no details about who abused/mocked the victim, who knew about it, or any actions that occurred.

You, and others, are definitely hanging the whole village. Guilt by association is all that is happening here. I believe Beach. I think some, or several, players made homphobic comments in training camp. Was it Seabrook? Was it some duster? WE DON'T KNOW.

This is not a defence of Aldrich, McDonough or the HR person. It is only about ensuring that people that are tarred and feathered have evidence that supports that.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Do you trust Kyle Beach at his word, or do you think he’s a liar?

Because if you trust Kyle Beach, then we know, at very least, Seabrook was in a leadership position while these comments were being made in public, including in the locker room and during practice.

I skipped this but I do believe Beach. I believe these comments were made at training camp. I also agree that Seabrook was in a leadership position. What we don't have is any connection between the comments and Seabrook. None. Beach did not say who made the comment. When they were made. How often they were made.

Based on this, I am not willing to find Seabrook, Bowman, or any of the others deserving of blame, of course, except McDonough, the HR person, and Aldrich.

Based on the JB report. If someone can point to some other objective evidence, then I am happy to consider that.

[Titan2]

As it relates to attitudes, I was willing to excommunicate Bowman, Q, and anyone else on the team. After reading the report, which appeared to be conducted as well as can be done 10 years after the event, my attitude has changed 180 degrees. For that, I thank Blaster. I felt compelled to read the report or else I did not have right to express my opinions. My opinion is that the top executive took ownership of managing the problem, delaying three weeks, and then Aldrich was allowed to resign the day he was confronted by HR. HR was definitely too permissive in relation to his participating in cup celebrations. Bowman, Q, MacIsaac, Gary, Employee A, all did what they should have done, in a timely manner, ran it up the chain to the top person, who took ownershkp of the situation.

I think that everyone in the organization has been sullied without evidence of any wrongdoing. To me, that is unfair and wrong.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

If the Oilers hired him, posters would have more valid reason to bash them because the hire was made by a team owned by Katz and run by Stan Bowman who was essentially one of the most guilty party of all. It would be more valid because they lack credibility.

But because the hire was made by the Flames who are currently run by Craig Conroy and Jarome Iginla was named by Seabrook directly in his press conference--- by questioning and bashing the hiring, you are indirectly questioning the character/morals of Conroy/Iginla. And I am absolutely not on board with that. Both of them have proven over a long period of time that they are individuals of the highest character.

Lol I'm not judging Conroy or Iginla. People make mistakes in hiring all the time.

We drafted Topi Ronni and immediately dropped him after finding out who he was. I don't judge us for not truly knowing every person and every player they hire or draft.

Anyways though, it is not like anyone was in the room with the Blackhawks anyways. Did they know, maybe or maybe not. If the exact same thing had happened on another team at that time, would any player have spoken up? Maybe or maybe not.

Like honestly, we don't know. But it is hard to get upset with someone who does not like the hire. It comes with this set of baggage. One of the former Blackhawks players said the entire team knew, so it is understandable some people would hold that against him.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Lol I'm not judging Conroy or Iginla. People make mistakes in hiring all the time.

We drafted Topi Ronni and immediately dropped him after finding out who he was. I don't judge us for not truly knowing every person and every player they hire or draft.

Anyways though, it is not like anyone was in the room with the Blackhawks anyways. Did they know, maybe or maybe not. If the exact same thing had happened on another team at that time, would any player have spoken up? Maybe or maybe not.

Like honestly, we don't know. But it is hard to get upset with someone who does not like the hire. It comes with this set of baggage. One of the former Blackhawks players said the entire team knew, so it is understandable some people would hold that against him.

So what you are saying is that every time you've seen somebody do wrong you've reported it? Even when you've been in a group with your friends?

You know some people here know that I'm deaf; Many years ago they used to call people who were deaf, "deaf and dumb,". "Imagine that that is just horrible!!" It was part of the language from the early 1900s and onward. It was still used by some older people when I was growing up. it was referred to as someone who couldn't hear, or speak. I also saw a lot of this type of bullying from kids when I was growing up in early school. Do you know how these attitudes changed? They changed because of People speaking up and education... Do you think those old people that used those terms should have been punished or educated? Can you agree things have gotten better because people are educating others that we need to change attitudes and culture.

Even if the players knew about it when you're in a group and you've been part of a culture that's been ongoing situations like this did happen, it wasn't right and sometimes it caused hurt, but the good news here is that somebody went up the chain and told the boss and something was done about it. Do you think because I'm deaf I should be angry at all these people who are using the term deaf and dumb? No, I didn't think so.. In some situations it better to educate so people have an opportunity to recognize the need for change and attitudes reflect opportunities to feel safe and included. I am pretty sure when it was brought out in the open every one of the guys realized the gravity of the situation. The sad thing about what you're talking about is the fact that some of it has probably gone on in other organizations, or Junior clubs but was never reported.

My suggestion, stop being angry, and be part of the solution. Get up there and educate but give people an opportunity to change. If the NHL was continuing with the same attitudes emerging, then definitely people should be angry and concerned. But NHL stepped in so people had to take notice and change, rehashing it is not the solution, creating better situations and opportunities for everyone involved brings humility and healing.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

So what you are saying is that every time you've seen somebody do wrong you've reported it? Even when you've been in a group with your friends?

You know some people here know that I'm deaf; Many years ago they used to call people who were deaf, "deaf and dumb,". "Imagine that that is just horrible!!" It was part of the language from the early 1900s and onward. It was still used by some older people when I was growing up. it was referred to as someone who couldn't hear, or speak. I also saw a lot of this type of bullying from kids when I was growing up in early school. Do you know how these attitudes changed? They changed because of People speaking up and education... Do you think those old people that used those terms should have been punished or educated? Can you agree things have gotten better because people are educating others that we need to change attitudes and culture.

Even if the players knew about it when you're in a group and you've been part of a culture that's been ongoing situations like this did happen, it wasn't right and sometimes it caused hurt, but the good news here is that somebody went up the chain and told the boss and something was done about it. Do you think because I'm deaf I should be angry at all these people who are using the term deaf and dumb? No, I didn't think so.. In some situations it better to educate so people have an opportunity to recognize the need for change and attitudes reflect opportunities to feel safe and included. I am pretty sure when it was brought out in the open every one of the guys realized the gravity of the situation. The sad thing about what you're talking about is the fact that some of it has probably gone on in other organizations, or Junior clubs but was never reported.

My suggestion, stop being angry, and be part of the solution. Get up there and educate but give people an opportunity to change. If the NHL was continuing with the same attitudes emerging, then definitely people should be angry and concerned. But NHL stepped in so people had to take notice and change, rehashing it is not the solution, creating better situations and opportunities for everyone involved brings humility and healing.

I am actually not angry, at all. I'm just saying it is understandable if some people are.

I also don't understand you asking if every time I have seen someone do something wrong have I reported it. I have never been in the situation where I heard that someone was sexually assaulted so it really isn't relevant.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I am actually not angry, at all. I'm just saying it is understandable if some people are.

I also don't understand you asking if every time I have seen someone do something wrong have I reported it. I have never been in the situation where I heard that someone was sexually assaulted so it really isn't relevant.

It's not uncommon for young kids to feel part of a group that bullies and then later realizes that it is wrong. I assumed that you have seen situations where people in your friendship group made poor choices, and for whatever reason you didn't speak up about it. It doesn't make it right but It is not uncommon.

To your comment, fair enough, bullying is not okay, it doesn't matter who you are, but this whole idea of being upset about Seabrook doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is rehashing something that was already dealt with by the NHL, or trying to attach the Calgary Flames or the fans to it".

If it was an ongoing problem I can see people being upset about it, we know that the Flames are fairly strict about discrimination and bullying pretty much from the responses we have seen. They have at times demonstrated zero tolerance for discrimination or abuse...

I gave you an example because there are some of us people out there that deal with this stuff everyday, and to hear some random people come on here to complain about Seabrook without talking about what has been done is a little bit annoying.

The NHL dealt with it, hopefully they can continue to tackle and improve on these types of situations. There certainly has been a trend against coaches who don't appear to treat the players respectfully.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Who are you upset with? The Flames management or the fans.

I feel like I am being pretty direct with who I am upset with. The Chicago Blackhawks organization and everyone within it from a period of time in the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s, barring a select few. I've been having a lively debate with some fans of the Calgary flames on if Brent Seabrook had an obligation to do more than he did and has done. My only take on his relation to the Flames is that I think hiring him is a mistake.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I could understand if this was a recent incident but this is already been handled by the NHL and some of these surrounding members have been educated and then re-instated. The NHL is evolving, as is many other industries with how they handle different situations. We have seen this with bullying as well, it is a process of people coming together to recognize a lot of old traditions and attitudes needed to change

So we should be more understanding because not speaking up is a tradition?

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

The problem I see is that you've brought this topic up as if you're mad at the Flames management, or the fans without acknowledging the fact that there's been a lot of work done in this area (and still lots of work tcan be done), and that some of these people are being reinstated and allowed back into better situations and support systems. You yourself know that you've done stuff in your life that you probably regret, or things that probably deserve some type of punishment;

Sure. And I've been punished accordingly. The Blackhawks as an organization and as individuals got no where near enough punishment for what occurred. Which is my issue.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

It will be interesting to tell us why you are able to move forward with new opportunities? We can admit that the NHL has been stricter about abusive situations between players and families; A progressive step towards creating positive attitudes and outcomes

Well, I've never done anything as heinous as to sit back and do nothing in a situation like this one so that's neat. But in other situations, I did miss out on opportunities and chances in my life that I will not get again as consequences for my actions.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

It is just surprising that you're taking such a strong stance, especially when you don't know the total involvement of that particular individua?

My stance on this has been repeated multiple times. I'm not answering it again as you guys just don't like my answer.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Don't you think that's a bit unfair?

No, I do not.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

The NHL dealt with it

Ownership? Small, insignificant fine.
Management? Time-out.
Players and employees? Sweet #### all.

Unless you're implying being gifted Bedard when this all came to light because Kyle Beach bravely came forward was a punishment?

Originally Posted by Titan2

I think that everyone in the organization has been sullied without evidence of any wrongdoing. To me, that is unfair and wrong.

Yeah, they just "Wanted to focus on the play-offs". It's totally fine they didn't push deeper when it was brought up. My disappointment isn't just that it happened. It's that nothing happened when people started to find out. Everyone just closed their eyes, covered their ears and went about their day except for apparently three people.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I feel like I am being pretty direct with who I am upset with. The Chicago Blackhawks organization and everyone within it from a period of time in the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s, barring a select few. I've been having a lively debate with some fans of the Calgary flames on if Brent Seabrook had an obligation to do more than he did and has done. My only take on his relation to the Flames is that I think hiring him is a mistake.



So we should be more understanding because not speaking up is a tradition?



Sure. And I've been punished accordingly. The Blackhawks as an organization and as individuals got no where near enough punishment for what occurred. Which is my issue.



Well, I've never done anything as heinous as to sit back and do nothing in a situation like this one so that's neat. But in other situations, I did miss out on opportunities and chances in my life that I will not get again as consequences for my actions.




My stance on this has been repeated multiple times. I'm not answering it again as you guys just don't like my answer.



No, I do not.






Ownership? Small, insignificant fine.
Management? Time-out.
Players and employees? Sweet #### all.

Unless you're implying being gifted Bedard when this all came to light because Kyle Beach bravely came forward was a punishment?





Yeah, they just "Wanted to focus on the play-offs". It's totally fine they didn't push deeper when it was brought up. My disappointment isn't just that it happened. It's that nothing happened when people started to find out. Everyone just closed their eyes, covered their ears and went about their day except for apparently three people.

Education is a process and it does get better. Complaining even rehashing about something that was dealt with by the NHL shouldn't have any bearing on the Flames. We all know the Flames are pretty strict about discrimination and abuse.

Like I said in a post after yours I've dealt with discrimination on my life, being upset about it and rehashing it doesn't solve anything, speaking up and education and providing people and organizations an opportunity to change is a much better solution. Do you really know Seabrook s involvement, who he talked to or how he felt about the situation at the time. Is there any reason we should take your word for not hiring Seabrook over the Calgary Flames organization? Is this something you're passionate about that you've brought up a lot in the past, or have you just decided to speak up about this situation with Seabrook and the Chicago Blackhawks?

Are you trying to educate us or are you generally upset because the Calgary Flames hired him?

[Jay Random]

OK, I want to call this particular bit out:

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Unless you're implying being gifted Bedard when this all came to light because Kyle Beach bravely came forward was a punishment?

This is absolutely unhinged. Are you seriously implying that the NHL rigged the draft lottery to REWARD the Blackhawks for what happened to Kyle Beach over a decade before?

[Royle9]

This thread is wild.
I'll leave it at that.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Yeah, they just "Wanted to focus on the play-offs". It's totally fine they didn't push deeper when it was brought up. My disappointment isn't just that it happened. It's that nothing happened when people started to find out. Everyone just closed their eyes, covered their ears and went about their day except for apparently three people.

You are still basing your judgment of Seabrook on the assumption that he knew about the abuse and did nothing. Please substantiate these assumptions. Of the players questioned by the independent inquiry, only two stated that they knew about the abuse, and neither of them could or would name anyone else who knew, or describe any conversations with teammates regarding this. We also don't know whether, having theoretically learned about the abuse, Seabrook approached a coach or someone in management about it, and may have been told that the issue was currently under investigation.

However, I do trust that Conroy would have done his due diligence regarding this. Protecting the team's assets and building a positive, supportive culture in the organization are his highest priorities, and if Seabrook was of questionable character, both of these priorities would be at risk.