Calgary EMS Workers going on strike

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by llama64

Yes, yes you can. Most people don't have a problem with how much they make, but more with how they spend it.

If you cannot afford a decent standard of living for a 4 person family, even in Calgary, with a 50K a year job, you're doing something wrong. Sure, you may live in a smaller house and you may only own a cheap used car, but you can do it. My family managed just fine for 20 years making a total of 30 to 40k a year.

A family CANNOT live on a 50k income in Calgary if they are just starting off. Most people have tens of thousands in student loans that need to be paid off then you have no less than a 1000 a month mortgage payemnt, if they can get one, car payments and everything else. The only way a family can get by on 50k a year is if they bought a house 5-10 years ago.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

A family CANNOT live on a 50k income in Calgary if they are just starting off. Most people have tens of thousands in student loans that need to be paid off then you have no less than a 1000 a month mortgage payemnt, if they can get one, car payments and everything else. The only way a family can get by on 50k a year is if they bought a house 5-10 years ago.

Well, you could... but you'd be renting, some of your kids would be sharing bedrooms, and there wouldn't be any family vacations outside Alberta. It would be a pretty lean lifestyle in many ways... very lean.

[fredr123]

There's no rule that entitles everyone to live in a mansion in Calgary and watch television on their big screen tv every night whilst enjoying guacamole and other fancy dips.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well, you could... but you'd be renting, some of your kids would be sharing bedrooms, and there wouldn't be any family vacations outside Alberta. It would be a pretty lean lifestyle in many ways... very lean.

Yeah, pretty lean eating as well.

[Fobby]

well... let me throw out a number. If you are fresh out of university looking to get into a house or start a family. A mortgage in today's world (which is roughly a 35-40 years term) would set you back 1900 - 2300 a month. Those are real numbers that my friends are paying now. Those numbers are for a 3 bed room single family home at around 1200 sq ft

If you want to calculate how much 50k a year bring home each month. look no further. After tax, it's roughly around 3000 dollars. take out 2k for the mortgage. then you get 1000 for food, heat, water, transportation, student loan... errr.. yea... good luck.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Fobby

well... let me throw out a number. If you are fresh out of university looking to get into a house or start a family. A mortgage in today's world (which is roughly a 35-40 years term) would set you back 1900 - 2300 a month. Those are real numbers that my friends are paying now. Those numbers are for a 3 bed room single family home at around 1200 sq ft

If you want to calculate how much 50k a year bring home each month. look no further. After tax, it's roughly around 3000 dollars. take out 2k for the mortgage. then you get 1000 for food, heat, water, transportation, student loan... errr.. yea... good luck.

Exactly

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Fobby

If you want to calculate how much 50k a year bring home each month. look no further. After tax, it's roughly around 3000 dollars. take out 2k for the mortgage. then you get 1000 for food, heat, water, transportation, student loan... errr.. yea... good luck.

I'm sure one of the financial panthers on the board can correct me, but is it not true that mortgage lenders will generally only let you spend 30% or so of your annual income on mortgage payments? If that's the case, then someone with a $50k/year job is not going to be able to qualify for conventional financing. You're going to have to go visit Vinny and Knuckles and have them float you a loan.

[jolinar of malkshor]

37% I believe and that is gross income not after tax income. But you are right someone making 50K would most likely not qualify to buy a house worth 300k unless they had no other debt

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

37% I believe and that is gross income not after tax income. But you are right someone making 50K would most likely not qualify to buy a house worth 300k unless they had no other debt

That leaves us with few options other than:
A) Rent;
B) Move somewhere else;
C) Get a better job

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Fobby

well... let me throw out a number. If you are fresh out of university looking to get into a house or start a family. A mortgage in today's world (which is roughly a 35-40 years term) would set you back 1900 - 2300 a month. Those are real numbers that my friends are paying now. Those numbers are for a 3 bed room single family home at around 1200 sq ft

If you want to calculate how much 50k a year bring home each month. look no further. After tax, it's roughly around 3000 dollars. take out 2k for the mortgage. then you get 1000 for food, heat, water, transportation, student loan... errr.. yea... good luck.

Obviously if you only made 50k a year and had a family to support, you wouldn't buy a house, you would rent. I'm sure there are actually LOTS of families in Calgary that are in that situation (large family, one earner making 50ish k/year) that get by fine... they're probably renting, and poor, but its not like they just don't exist. Plenty of them do.

Sometimes I think a lot of people of affluence (middle/upper class) think everyone owns a home, even poor people. It doesn't work that way.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Obviously if you only made 50k a year and had a family to support, you wouldn't buy a house, you would rent. I'm sure there are actually LOTS of families in Calgary that are in that situation (large family, one earner making 50ish k/year) that get by fine... they're probably renting, and poor, but its not like they just don't exist. Plenty of them do.

Sometimes I think a lot of people of affluence (middle/upper class) think everyone owns a home, even poor people. It doesn't work that way.

Raises an interesting point.

Should an employer be expected to provide an income substantial enough for someone to afford a house/car/family on that single income?

The answer might be that if we want to have quality EMS staff then yes they should. Not sure.

Holy crap.

Thats the point. One has career job (not a menial job that requires no education) that they have trained extensively for (paramedic) and your saying, 'sure you might have to live at the poverty line, but thats life'?

That's completely ridiculous.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Should an employer be expected to provide an income substantial enough for someone to afford a house/car/family on that single income?

No, because not everyone should have multiple members of family (IE more kids than they can afford to have), and if they cant afford a car, they dont drive, they bus it or bike or walk. As far as houses, well look at the market, if you cant afford to buy, then you rent.

This is all called good personal finance and common sense. We are not communist.

I know a family who is barely making ends meet, but that doesnt stop them from 1-having kids, 2-buying a minivan to cart them all around and 3-bitching excessively about things like the price of fuel, nat gas, electricity, water, and food. I dont mean complain that they cant afford it, I mean complain that it doesnt cost the same as it did in 1991 or something... Its far easier to complain about everything and demand handouts and stuff rather than look within and see if THEY can make their own situation better.

I stand corrected on my previous comment - 50K a year can be enough for 1 person or maybe a couple to survive on, providing that you cut back on the smokes, the creature comforts like vehicles that get 10mpg and insisting on high-speed internet and cable and eating out all the time and stuff like that. I dont think that anyone has stated that a family of 4 or 5 can do it.

Someone talked about mortgages and how its hard for people to buy. Well guess what then, they dont buy, and if they cant rent, then I guess they dont live here. What in the hell are we supposed to do about that? Feel sorry for them because I had the foresight to not be dragged down by a student loan or someother sort of financing decision? Because they do not seem to want to scrimp and save and stuff like I did? I dont think so.

Its called living within your means, and lots and lots of people are sucessfully doing it.

I'm only saying that maybe the EMTs should get a cost of living raise to match the economy because of what they do and go through. But the fact is that when I have used them (twice) I wasnt too impressed.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Here's an email that was sent out by my Alderman this afternoon around 4pm.


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The union’s contract expired June 30, 2006. Both the City and the union have met approximately 25 times, including one session with a mediator since April 2006. The union ended negotiations and the session involving the mediator. The City is available and willing to resume discussions at any time.

The City’s goal is to achieve a negotiated settlement as soon as possible and is continuing to work with the union towards a positive outcome.

On July 19, The City proposed to the union that this contract dispute be put to a voluntary interest arbitration board. It is a process under the provincial labour code where both parties agree to have their dispute settled by an independent third party. The decision of the board is final and binding and forms the basis of the new contract.

The City wants to reach a negotiated settlement with the union and is willing to continue discussions. However, the union ended mediation and took a strike vote, which the membership endorsed. That means that the membership has given their approval for a strike. However, the union must provide the City with 72 hours notice before starting a strike or any legal job action. The notice has NOT been received as of yet.

The union is seeking a wage increases of approximately 30% over three years as well as increases to shift differentials. The City’s offer of 12% is in line with the wage increases by other unions representing City employees and is affordable to taxpayers (Calgary Police Service settled for 11 %). The City’s offer is also inclusive of a supplementary pension plan for its employees.

Presently, Paramedics are the second highest paid paramedics in western Canada, and the third highest in Canada. Calgary EMS is second only to the Province of British Columbia and third to the City of Toronto. The average T4 earnings for members of the union in 2006 were $75,000.

In the event of a strike, the City does have a contingency plan in place. Management personnel who are trained and certified paramedics will be staffing the ambulances. They will be supported by managers from other business units who have received basic ambulance training and first aid training.

911 will continue to answer calls as employees in Public Safety Communications centre are represented by a different union and will their operation will not be impacted.

If you need emergency medical care, call 911. If your medical need is not an emergency call the Calgary Health Region’s Health Link at 943-5465. If you require non-emergency medical care and are able to get to a hospital on your own, you are urged to do so.

[moon]

Can Paramedics spouse's not work?

[calf]

Just got an e-mail from CHQR - EMS has issued strike notice effective Thursday at 1pm