[Rumour] Dreger: Bowen Byram trade talks heating up. Calgary one of many teams interested

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by devo22

the super negative crowd always fascinates me. Being that negative as a fan sounds extremely tiring. Where's the fun?

You can be frustrated with the direction of the team and still cheer for them and enjoy watching them play. Also, some fans come off as more negative then they are on the board. This board is very defensive and not very tolerant of opposing views.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I assume you watched the playoffs the last 2 years where they went to game 7 of the Stanley cup finals and game 5 of the Stanley cup finals?

They are the 2nd most successful franchise over the last 2 seasons behind Florida

If they are the argument that drafting superstars doesn’t work I don’t know what to say . They are the perfect example that a couple superstars can make up for many other deficiencies

I only hope we can experience this level of failure in the future (straight Stanley cup appearances)

That model is entirely un-replicable. You might be lucky enough to have Lemieux and Jagr, or Crosby and Malkin, or McDavid and Draisaitl, but I wouldn't recommend that you make that your strategy for success.

Also, let's not forget that the Oilers were the worst franchise in sports for more than 15 years, before they got lucky.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Oilers have 2 elite players, something no team can expect, tank or not tank.

The Sharks have some solid prospects, but the standings are littered with teams who had a bunch of solid prospects. There are no guarantees.

If we did not draft Parekh, I would have traded our entire team for Celebrini and Misa. They are elite talent.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

If we did not draft Parekh, I would have traded our entire team for Celebrini and Mews. They are elite talent.

Celebrini is looking elite, yes. We'll see about Mews. But regardless, that guarantees nothing. Lots of teams have a couple elite players.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I assume you watched the playoffs the last 2 years where they went to game 7 of the Stanley cup finals and game 5 of the Stanley cup finals?

They are the 2nd most successful franchise over the last 2 seasons behind Florida

If they are the argument that drafting superstars doesn’t work I don’t know what to say . They are the perfect example that a couple superstars can make up for many other deficiencies

I only hope we can experience this level of failure in the future (straight Stanley cup appearances)

Just to confirm, with the oilers, were talking about two of the top 3 franchise forwards currently in the game with one being a generational player. The odds of drafting that generational player + one other top 3 player in a 32 team league is insanely low. Like 1 in 2000 type numbers.

And these oilers still haven't won a cup.

[midniteowl]

Lemieux and Jagr -- 2 Cups


Crosby and Malkin -- 3 Cups


McDavid and Draisaitl -- 0 Cups


Making it to the SC Final back to back is dandy but they still did not win. Are their fans satisfied because they have back to back SC Final appearance? Calling them most successful franchise over the last 2 seasons is a bit much. They are the luckiest franchise to have McDavid drop on their laps, if they are most successful franchise they'd have at least one Cup if not multiple.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That model is entirely un-replicable. You might be lucky enough to have Lemieux and Jagr, or Crosby and Malkin, or McDavid and Draisaitl, but I wouldn't recommend that you make that your strategy for success.

Also, let's not forget that the Oilers were the worst franchise in sports for more than 15 years, before they got lucky.

I didn’t say we should emulate the oilers nor tank . I said we are still 2-3 star players in our pipeline away from being “done” a rebuild / have the potential for a proper core

And was then asked (for whatever reason ) what the Oilers have done - which seems the worse team to pick as an example as their 2 stars literally lead them to the cup finals despite everything else they do wrong

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Lemieux and Jagr -- 2 Cups


Crosby and Malkin -- 3 Cups


McDavid and Draisaitl -- 0 Cups


Making it to the SC Final back to back is dandy but they still did not win. Are their fans satisfied because they have back to back SC Final appearance? Calling them most successful franchise over the last 2 seasons is a bit much. They are the luckiest franchise to have McDavid drop on their laps, if they are most successful franchise they'd have at least one Cup if not multiple.

2nd most successful franchise . Not sure why you changed it to most . Never said most .

Im all for an argument who is 2nd over them over the last 2 seasons

[1qqaaz]

And Crosby was 30 when he won his third cup. Gretzky was 26 when he won his third cup. Lemiux was 26 when he won his 2nd. Jagr was 20.

McDavid will have to be at least 29 to win his first cup.

Also, none of these players hit career highs in points past the age of 26. McDavid seems that he has already hit his career high in the 22-23 season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I didn’t say we should emulate the oilers nor tank . I said we are still 2-3 star players in our pipeline away from being “done” a rebuild / have the potential for a proper core

And was then asked (for whatever reason ) what the Oilers have done - which seems the worse team to pick as an example as their 2 stars literally lead them to the cup finals despite everything else they do wrong

Well, you never actually said that. But regardless, no one has suggested we're done - no one.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I assume you watched the playoffs the last 2 years where they went to game 7 of the Stanley cup finals and game 5 of the Stanley cup finals?

They are the 2nd most successful franchise over the last 2 seasons behind Florida

If they are the argument that drafting superstars doesn’t work I don’t know what to say . They are the perfect example that a couple superstars can make up for many other deficiencies

I only hope we can experience this level of failure in the future (straight Stanley cup appearances)

Entirely unreplicable because:

1. Generational stars only come around once every 20 years.

2. Draft lottery rules have been changed to prevent another team from getting three 1st overalls in three years and four 1st overalls in six years.

3. The NHL won't be letting players whose contracts have been voided by the league for unbecoming conduct to rejoin the league just so they can sign with the Flames for league minimum.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, you never actually said that. But regardless, no one has suggested we're done - no one.

I absolutely did - this morning

Not sure why taxbuster called me out and asked “what have the Oilers done” hours later ! And I answered what they have done

Back to back finals . Not an opinion , it’s what happened like it or not

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s just where sports fandom rhetoric is in its current evolution. Fans who know little (at least as little as anyone else, which is the lot of us) think their opinion is somehow more interesting/valid if it is negative or a critique.

Other issue these days, especially in sports, is there is a lot of ‘data’ people can use to ‘back up’ their argument/their priors. So it’s easy to have an opinion and then go find ‘hard’ data to supposedly back it up.

Problem is sports are now oversampled, and that creates more noise around the finite data. So every opinion regardless of validity ends up finding some supportive data somewhere to back it up, meaning that the individual gets to be obnoxious with their certainty.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Entirely unreplicable because:

1. Generational stars only come around once every 20 years.

2. Draft lottery rules have been changed to prevent another team from getting three 1st overalls in three years and four 1st overalls in six years.

3. The NHL won't be letting players whose contracts have been voided by the league for unbecoming conduct to rejoin the league just so they can sign with the Flames for league minimum.

Didn’t suggest we should haha . Was answering a question on what the oilers did

Someone please find a post where I said we should be the oilers . Good luck !

[Enoch Root]

So do you have a point here (other than stating the fact that the Oilers made it to the cup finals the last 2 years)?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Why are we on using the Oilers? What about the kings ? Panthers ? Lightning? Hawks ?

Teams with actual success and multiple cups. All of them picked top 3 and went onto win cups.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

2nd most successful franchise . Not sure why you changed it to most . Never said most .

Im all for an argument who is 2nd over them over the last 2 seasons

FWIW, I didn't intentionally changed it, just didn't typed the word "2nd", sorry. The most , 2nd most , don't matter, my point still stand. They are the luckiest franchise.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Why are we on using the Oilers? What about the kings ? Panthers ? Lightning? Hawks ?

Teams with actual success and multiple cups. All of them picked top 3 and went onto win cups.

There are no "we" here, just Jason14 don't know why he keeps bringing that "back to back SC Final appearance".

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

There are no "we" here, just Jason14 don't know why he keeps bringing that "back to back SC Final appearance".

Back to back crushing defeats. A complete ass kicking the last time. Stupid oilers

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Back to back crushing defeats. A complete ass kicking the last time. Stupid oilers

TBH, from what they've done so far this off season, if one or 2 teams take a step forward, they might not make the playoff next season.