American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[Harry Lime]

Judging from this last page or so, virtue signaling is definitely an image issue. There was a chance to engage EE about any of what he said, and instead just a lot of piling on.

Communication between the two sides is almost nonexistent.

Itse started off well, for the first three paragraphs, but then went off the rails, and shut down any response. Even the best posts are like that.

This is like a bad 90s Hallmark movie. Just admit that the left and right really want to bone.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Judging from this last page or so, virtue signaling is definitely an image issue. There was a chance to engage EE about any of what he said, and instead just a lot of piling on.

Communication between the two sides is almost nonexistent.

Itse started off well, for the first three paragraphs, but then went off the rails, and shut down any response. Even the best posts are like that.

I mean, surely you’re not surprised by this, yeah? The pile-on / non-engagement was about as predictable as it gets. [shrug]

[opendoor]

How do you really engage with an opinion that is effectively based in fiction any better than people already did when the person doesn't seem to understand that?

Like, if someone thinks Joe Biden being President is an example of the "extreme left" being in power and enacting policies that serve as the ying to the yang of Trump and what we're seeing now, how do you even begin to address that? It represents a completely fundamental misunderstanding of politics and what's happening.

I guess to be charitable, maybe EE just did a poor job of communicating his opinion on this matter. But taken at face value, it just sounds like someone drowning in right wing propaganda that normalizes right wing extremism by positioning moderate Democratic policies as the other side of the same coin.

[jayswin]

Yeah, I didn't see piling on or not addressing his points at all. A couple posters actually gave excellent, well thought out and tactfully delivered responses to ErickEstrada's opinions on cancel culture and wokeness.

[Harry Lime]

It's a Canadian example, and not American, but Trudeau was the worst example of virtue signalling for personal global clout. He would enact policy such as the single use plastic ban, just so he could tell the rest of the world how progressive he is, while the world didn't give a #### and the top ten rivers in Asia and Africa are still clogged with waste. I'm still slurping a ten dollar latte out of a rolled up envelope.

He also created an arbitrary date for massive electric car adoption that was in no way achievable, just so that he could brag to the international community. There were major problems in immigration, but he shut down talk with cries of racism. He ignored the health of the country in return for an environmental policy that didn't change the global outlook at all.

Trudeau is way worse than Biden or Obama as a left leaning shill for things that don't matter when put under a microscope. It's hard to not be angry at that, because we only only live 70 or 80 years, and nobody wants a chunk of that to be ####, so that a politician can do speaking tours and write a bestseller, after office.

The problem might be that the right doesn't have a reliable media source. Conservatives have been bullied out by libertarians and oligarchs, and for all intents and purposes, conservatism is dead in america.

Just because all of the remaining voices are nutjobs, doesn't mean that the left isn't a pile of ####, too. Major problems there, that effect our everyday lives.

The main problem, as seen in the States, is that the libertarians and oligarchs are posing as conservatives, and the education system has been broken down enough that there is no salient response that would see the conservatives regain power in their own party.

I'm also writing on a phone and have lost my train of thought.
Good day, sir!

[Mathgod]

Imagine being like, "I order a $10 latte every day. Woe is me! I'm such a victim!"

Look man, we get it. Trudeau made a mistake regarding immigration. Almost everyone acknowledges that. Give it a rest.

As for the accusations of virtue signaling, that's rather ironic... did you notice that EE didn't give any specific examples of the things he was complaining about?

Honestly, I'm getting very tired of the "the left caused the US to become so divided" narrative, and the left constantly blamed for the "us vs them" mentality. If you want to know how things got so bad, there are several reasons, but here are two of the biggest ones:

1. The coarsening of political dialogue in the US, by Gingrich and others: https://history.princeton.edu/about/...publican-party

2. Reagan's trickle-down policies which dramatically exacerbated income inequality in America:

[OldDutch]

Trudeau was a student of divisive politics. He used his position of power in Canada to sow West vs East, con vs lib, man vs woman, vax vs unvaccinated . There wasn’t a wedge issue he did stay away from.

What resulted was these deep entrenched camps of morally superior vs the unwashed. Basically he took Progressivism and abused it for his own gain. Telling all opposed their morally bankrupt.

It is the same playbook as down South. Similar results. I think were still all missing forest through trees that Conservatism or Progressivism is not represented in current parties. Both are needed, and when either are missing stuff spirals fast.

Progressives love to wear the moral superiority crown, but they can be as destructive as Conservatives. I lothe that politicians have once again juiced us for personal gain, but in the end its our fault for falling for 2 morons on both sides

[blender]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I'm still slurping a ten dollar latte out of a rolled up envelope.

This is why we are fukced

[Sainters7]

Not sure if he's just doing his trolling thing, but Musk Tweeted he's forming a new political party. (just a screenshot - I know many don't want Twitter links on CP). I'm sure Donnie will love that..

Spoiler!

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Trudeau was a student of divisive politics. He used his position of power in Canada to sow West vs East, con vs lib, man vs woman, vax vs unvaccinated. There wasn’t a wedge issue he did stay away from.

What resulted was these deep entrenched camps of morally superior vs the unwashed. Basically he took Progressivism and abused it for his own gain. Telling all opposed their morally bankrupt.

It is the same playbook as down South. Similar results. I think were still all missing forest through trees that Conservatism or Progressivism is not represented in current parties. Both are needed, and when either are missing stuff spirals fast.

Progressives love to wear the moral superiority crown, but they can be as destructive as Conservatives. I lothe that politicians have once again juiced us for personal gain, but in the end its our fault for falling for 2 morons on both sides

I don't think you get to say this kind of stuff like it's common knowledge and not provide examples.

During COVID and the Ottawa Occupation Trudeau told selfish and stupid people that Canadians have no interest in bending to or being held hostage by their selfishness and stupidity. Suddenly he became the most divisive Canadian that ever lived for telling the 5-10% of ignorant loudmouths in the population to knock it off and take your medicine.

When it's that lopsided it's not devisiveness. At worst, it's hubris to try and course correct natural selection.

Hating Trudeau has transformed into some kind of weird, obsessive personality trait, much like worshipping Trump. Reality and truth doesn't matter, it's all about loyalty and tribalism.

Paper straws and emissions goals? This man clearly hates Canada.

[blender]

There's a lot of labels getting thrown around here; right, left, progressive, conservative, communist, fascist, etc.

But this isn't politics, it's morality. Some ideas, some actions and the people that espouse them, are abhorrent and need to discredited, opposed, suppressed relentlessly. The notion that all opinions are valid and should be given a platform or a voice is wrong.

This is the most dangerous moment in human history and somehow there is a sizable segment of society that wants to argue about who is right. No one is right. We've been wrapped up in evil ideas for so long the evil starts to feel OK. It is a normalization of deviance and we are going to pay for it big time.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

It's a Canadian example, and not American, but Trudeau was the worst example of virtue signalling for personal global clout. He would enact policy such as the single use plastic ban, just so he could tell the rest of the world how progressive he is, while the world didn't give a #### and the top ten rivers in Asia and Africa are still clogged with waste. I'm still slurping a ten dollar latte out of a rolled up envelope.

He also created an arbitrary date for massive electric car adoption that was in no way achievable, just so that he could brag to the international community. There were major problems in immigration, but he shut down talk with cries of racism. He ignored the health of the country in return for an environmental policy that didn't change the global outlook at all.

Trudeau is way worse than Biden or Obama as a left leaning shill for things that don't matter when put under a microscope. It's hard to not be angry at that, because we only only live 70 or 80 years, and nobody wants a chunk of that to be ####, so that a politician can do speaking tours and write a bestseller, after office.

The problem might be that the right doesn't have a reliable media source. Conservatives have been bullied out by libertarians and oligarchs, and for all intents and purposes, conservatism is dead in america.

Just because all of the remaining voices are nutjobs, doesn't mean that the left isn't a pile of ####, too. Major problems there, that effect our everyday lives.

The main problem, as seen in the States, is that the libertarians and oligarchs are posing as conservatives, and the education system has been broken down enough that there is no salient response that would see the conservatives regain power in their own party.

I'm also writing on a phone and have lost my train of thought.
Good day, sir!

It's not that they don't matter, it's just that the rest of the world quickly stopped caring. All the consequences are still coming. Reality hasn't changed. You can argue Trudeau held on too long to those principles when it was obvious humanity has chosen the path of "#### it, we'll figure it out late,r or someone else will, or not, who cares," and that's fair point to argue. But I'm not sure it's fair to say these things are not important.

The electric vehicle mandate was following the lead of California(and perhaps Biden was gong that way? Can't remember), it was not something he came up with out of the blue.

As to Conservatives losing their media to the even further right, well that's what happens when you keep giving inches. Eventually you turn around and find you've not just lost a few inches, it's all gone. See our current UCP and federal Conservatives, and how inches were given over decades and now it's vanished into Maple MAGA(please don't try to argue the UCP isn't, because they are mirroring every Trump policy they can get away with). I've made the point for years not to give inches to these people, lest this happen, and low and behold, Conservatives still chose to support them because they looked past all the warts and still felt OK with it, and the next thing they know their parties are full of horrible people who should be nowhere near government. Modern Canadian Conservatism is what it is because of that.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's not that they don't matter, it's just that the rest of the world quickly stopped caring. All the consequences are still coming. Reality hasn't changed. You can argue Trudeau held on too long to those principles when it was obvious humanity has chosen the path of "#### it, we'll figure it out late,r or someone else will, or not, who cares," and that's fair point to argue. But I'm not sure it's fair to say these things are not important.

The electric vehicle mandate was following the lead of California(and perhaps Biden was gong that way? Can't remember), it was not something he came up with out of the blue.

As to Conservatives losing their media to the even further right, well that's what happens when you keep giving inches. Eventually you turn around and find you've not just lost a few inches, it's all gone. See our current UCP and federal Conservatives, and how inches were given over decades and now it's vanished into Maple MAGA(please don't try to argue the UCP isn't, because they are mirroring every Trump policy they can get away with). I've made the point for years not to give inches to these people, lest this happen, and low and behold, Conservatives still chose to support them because they looked past all the warts and still felt OK with it, and the next thing they know their parties are full of horrible people who should be nowhere near government. Modern Canadian Conservatism is what it is because of that.

A big part of the issue is that lift and shift for policies does not always work very well especially without significant foresight and investment. Canada and California have much different transportation needs. Our climates are different and EV feasibility is not the same. Our driving distances are different and the charging infrastructure at the time of mandate announcement was at a much different level. California and the US in general is much farther ahead on electrification and charging than Canada is. They have many big players including local governments that are investing while in Canada we are waiting on the feds to take the lead because the investment community doesn't want to caught with their pants down in the immediate future.

Trudeau didn't understand that he needed to tailor policy towards being Canada specific instead of just doing what other places are doing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1941613964024029653

Apparently Matthew Tkachuk is altering the weather.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

https://twitter.com/user/status/1941613964024029653

Apparently Matthew Tkachuk is altering the weather.

Well yeah, a mullet of epic proportions will do that...

[FlamesAddiction]

Does Elon Musk fall out of a window before his new party actually runs a presidential candidate?

[Fuzz]

Never forget how Musk celebrated his callous murderous actions.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Does Elon Musk fall out of a window before his new party actually runs a presidential candidate?

Agent Krasnov on the job!

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Trudeau was a student of divisive politics. He used his position of power in Canada to sow West vs East, con vs lib, man vs woman, vax vs unvaccinated . There wasn’t a wedge issue he did stay away from.

We have a leader in Alberta doing that everyday here, to a bigger degree than Trudeau ever did.

[puffnstuff]

I remember when 'cancel culture' was just called 'the consequences of your own actions'