I wonder if Blaster was this enraged when the Canucks traded for Kane
Lol.
You know, I was wondering if some stupid #### like this was going to come up as this argument was occurring. I was pleasantly surprised and quite happy it didn't. So of course someone had to say something stupid as it was dying down and everyone was sort of coming to terms with the fact no opinions were changing.
Go read the thread about the trade, dweeb.
__________________
THANK MR DEMKO
CPHL Ottawa Vancouver
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Blaster86 For This Useful Post:
You know, I was wondering if some stupid #### like this was going to come up as this argument was occurring. I was pleasantly surprised and quite happy it didn't. So of course someone had to say something stupid as it was dying down and everyone was sort of coming to terms with the fact no opinions were changing.
Go read the thread about the trade, dweeb.
There's definitely a dweeb in this thread...
The Following User Says Thank You to Jiggy For This Useful Post:
You know, I was wondering if some stupid #### like this was going to come up as this argument was occurring. I was pleasantly surprised and quite happy it didn't. So of course someone had to say something stupid as it was dying down and everyone was sort of coming to terms with the fact no opinions were changing.
Go read the thread about the trade, dweeb.
I was hoping someone would bring it up earlier, I've actually been waiting for someone to respond by bringing up the Kane thing - because it highlights one of the most important aspects about this discussion IMO.
I can't recall exactly how your reaction was in the Kane thread, but I remember you being less than thrilled to say the least (I don't have the time and energy to go into an old thread and do detective work).
But the thing is, one can still be critical of the morality of another clubs actions while also acknowledging the actions of your own club that you're unhappy about - they aren't mutually exclusive.
The posters who are ok with this hire and believe he's learned from his mistakes, we didn't fully know his role etc. you're completely entitled to your opinion, but my question would be - if the Oilers hired Seabrook would you have the same rhetoric? Or would you use his past to throw pot shots at the Oilers? If the answer is the latter that's where I have a problem. Not accusing anyone in the thread of this btw.
I
The posters who are ok with this hire and believe he's learned from his mistakes, we didn't fully know his role etc. you're completely entitled to your opinion, but my question would be - if the Oilers hired Seabrook would you have the same rhetoric? Or would you use his past to throw pot shots at the Oilers? If the answer is the latter that's where I have a problem. Not accusing anyone in the thread of this btw.
I've tried to avoid that type of argument becoming a focal point here because I didn't think it would be totally substantive to anything, but the thought obviously crossed my mind and was very hard to ignore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
The report actually doesn't say if players knew at the time.
All relevant reports have most if not all the players knowing what had happened by start of training camp. This is around when the taunting of Beach started to happen. So even if he didn't find out until then, he still stood by and listened to the kid get taunted for what happened. He still didn't speak up after finding out and this was all only months old. He still didn't speak up when he realized this was getting rail roaded. And he still hasn't spoken up after the fact.
The flip side, you have guys like Boynton and Sopel being quite clear that everyone knew very early on.
Again, I don't hold Seabrook solely responsible and he may have many reasons for not coming forward. But he had some responsibility (as any of us would) to do more and in my mind there are no reasons good enough to stay silent. And like everyone else who was a member of the organization at that time, I don't think that can be forgotten and ignored.
But I've said all this already and no one's minds seem to be changing.
__________________
THANK MR DEMKO
CPHL Ottawa Vancouver
The Following User Says Thank You to Blaster86 For This Useful Post:
The report actually doesn't say if players knew at the time. Toews says he heard about it the next season. Hossa says he didn't know. Kane said he heard locker room rumours (I assume the next season as well). I don't think anything says that players knew there was a sexual assault and did not report it at the time.
The whole point of Quenneville's inaction recommendation was to prevent the team from knowing until after the POs.
I spent the morning reading every word of the report. My comments spoilered as they are text wally.
Spoiler!
I have now read the entire report. Based on its contents, which I understand are the only investigation of any type into this incident, I conclude the following:
1. Aldrich is definitely a criminal, and I am glad he ended up in jail for a different offence.
2. The Blackhawk management ####e up. However, it is at the feet of President John McDonough and Sr. Director of Hockery Operations Al MacIsaad, to a lesser degree.
3. The allegation was brought to MacIsaac in a timely manner. He informed McDonough who directed him to have the team counsellor look into it, which he did in a timely manner.
4. Senior management met to discuss the allegations an hour after their third-round victory on May 23.
5. In this meeting Q stated he wanted to focus on the playoffs. That was the extent of his input.
6. Material or not, Beach and the other player were black aces and not on the roster. Black Aces are largely kept away from the team during the playoffs.
7. Bowman took the allegations seriously, as did everyone in the Sr. Mgmt. meeting.
8. Bowman states that he either heard or understood that McDonough would handle the situation.
9. The Blackhawks proceeded to win the Stanley Cup.
10. Aldrich was allowed to continue his invovlement with the team and even got to host the Stanley Cup for a day.
11. On June 14 McDonough told the Director of HR about the allegation.
12. On June 16 she met with Aldrich and outside counsel. When confronted Aldrich broke down. The Dir. of HR told him he could take a leave of absence while they investigated or he could resign.
13. He chose to resign, was paid until August 31, received severance and his playoof bonus.
14. McDonough, MacIsaac and Q. were not involved in the discussions regarding his termination.
15. The other player reported that at training camp one player called him a ###### and asked how he liked the blowjob.
16. Beach states that at training camp he heard several derogatory comments, "After the 2010 Stanley Cup win, John Doe continued to be under contract with the Blackhawks and played for the Rockford IceHogs. During the summer of 2010 and the 2010-2011 pre-season and regular season, John Doe had several additional conversations with Jim Gary and recalled being subjected to rumors and derogatory comments.644 When interviewed, Gary recalled that at the September 2010 Blackhawks training camp, he told John Doe that he could help find John Doe a therapist unaffiliated with the Blackhawks.645 Gary recalled that John Doe did not seem interested in Gary’s suggestion.o, 646 John Doe recalled that during the training camp, multiple players called John Doe derogatory words and asked if John Doe missed “his boyfriend Brad.”647 None of the players interviewed during our investigation admitted to making or hearing about these or similar statements."
17. There is no information indicating that the leadership group knew about the allegations at the time or afterward. Some players indicated "everyone knew" but no players confirmed this or their knowledge.
18. The only allegations about derogatory statements occured at training camp. There is no indication Beach ever skated with any of the roster players.
My conclusions:
1. Re the players. There is no indication that any of the roster players knew about the situation in May 2010 or in the following training camp. They may have heard rumours but there is nothing indicating they did or did not.
2. Re management. For the most part management appeared to conduct themselves appropriately. When the allegations were first raised management directed Gary, the counsellor, to look into it. He did and when he was satisfied the allegations had merit, he took them to Sr. Mgmt. Sr. Mgmt. met in a timely manner to discuss it. McDonough and Q. were concerned about a distration from the team's playoff run. The meeting concluded with the impression that McDonough would handle it. On June 14 he raised the issue with the Dir. of HR and she took over conduct of the matter which resulted in his termination. She did not conduct an official investigation but accepted the resignation and allowed him to participate in team events. She did not inform police.
McDonough breached team policy by failing to investigate in a timely manner. The Dir. of HR breached team policy by not conducting an investigation and she should have removed him from team activities immediately.
Other than that, I don't think anyone deserves blame in this situation, including Bowman, Q, or any of the roster players. I would certainly listen to anyone who has contrary evidence, but it appears to me this has been blown WAY out of proportion.
Again, Aldrich is a predatory scum. McDonough delayed taking action for three weeks. The Dir. of HR, made some bad calls. That is all I see that the 'evidence' supports.
__________________
E=NG
Last edited by Titan2; 07-04-2025 at 05:47 PM.
Reason: spelling
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Titan2 For This Useful Post:
All relevant reports have most if not all the players knowing what had happened by start of training camp. This is around when the taunting of Beach started to happen. So even if he didn't find out until then, he still stood by and listened to the kid get taunted for what happened. He still didn't speak up after finding out and this was all only months old. He still didn't speak up when he realized this was getting rail roaded. And he still hasn't spoken up after the fact.
The flip side, you have guys like Boynton and Sopel being quite clear that everyone knew very early on.
Again, I don't hold Seabrook solely responsible and he may have many reasons for not coming forward. But he had some responsibility (as any of us would) to do more and in my mind there are no reasons good enough to stay silent. And like everyone else who was a member of the organization at that time, I don't think that can be forgotten and ignored.
But I've said all this already and no one's minds seem to be changing.
The players heard rumours of what happened. The taunting was limited to training camp and we don't know if the main players were involved. You don't know who heard the taunts or what action they took on the ice, in the room or at all. What was getting rail roaded? Beach? You have no evidence he was rail roaded. If you do produce it.
The reports comments on Sopel and Boynton:
"Two former Blackhawks players claimed in their interviews and publicly in 2021 that, during the 2010 playoffs, “everyone” knew about Aldrich engaging in inappropriate conduct with players.469 In particular, Brent Sopel claimed in his interview and publicly that “everyone” was talking about how Aldrich wanted to “touch penises” during the 2010 playoffs and that “everyone” knew.m, 470 Nick Boynton stated in his interview and publicly that during the 2010 playoffs, numerous Blackhawks players asked him what happened regarding Aldrich.471 We pressed Sopel and Boynton for details regarding which conversations, and with whom, led them to believe that “everyone” knew about Aldrich engaging in inappropriate conduct with players.472 Neither Boynton nor Sopel could provide many details.473 Interviews of players from the 2010 Blackhawks’ roster contradicted the claims that “everyone” knew—of the 14 players on the 2010 roster whom we interviewed, 6 players told us they had no knowledge of inappropriate conduct by Aldrich in 2010, and 6 players told us they only learned about inappropriate conduct through rumors after Aldrich separated from the Blackhawks in June 2010.474 Two players—Sopel and Boynton—stated that they heard about inappropriate conduct by Aldrich before he separated from the team.475
No one's minds are changing because you are basing your opinions on speculation.
And what about a 3rd party report and literally other players on the team have said they know?
You people are ridiculous. I am not making assumptions or guessing. We have been told who knew by people in the ####ing room. Them denying it only buries them further in my eyes.
No, we have not. You are a witch. No I am not. You are denying it, that makes you guilty! Witch.
Did you actually read the report, carefully? It does not say what you are claiming it says. At all.
No, we have not. You are a witch. No I am not. You are denying it, that makes you guilty! Witch.
Did you actually read the report, carefully? It does not say what you are claiming it says. At all.
I did. I also read the statement from Nick Boynton and Brent Sopel including the statement after participating in the investigation. And then Kyle Beach's statement where he thanked the people and players who had his back. The players knew. The idea that Brent Sopel and Nick Boynton were the only two who knew or that those two knew and a player considered to be part of the team leadership did not is asinine.
No, we have not. You are a witch. No I am not. You are denying it, that makes you guilty! Witch.
Did you actually read the report, carefully? It does not say what you are claiming it says. At all.
Blaster tried to suggest and was even quite adamant that I was an Oilers fan a while back and dug in more because of my denial, so the line of thought fits here too.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
Let us not befoul this glorious day with talk of the anal gland drippings that are HERO charts.
I did. I also read the statement from Nick Boynton and Brent Sopel including the statement after participating in the investigation. And then Kyle Beach's statement where he thanked the people and players who had his back. The players knew. The idea that Brent Sopel and Nick Boynton were the only two who knew or that those two knew and a player considered to be part of the team leadership did not is asinine.
Again, you are speculating. Maybe everyone else is lying. That is possible. 6 players said they heard about it after Aldrich left. 6 said they did not know about it.
Remember, he was a black ace and separate from the team that was involved in a Stanley Cup run. The incident occurred May 8 or 9. The event came to the attention of MacIsaac on May 23. Who instructed Gary to look into it. That same day Sr. Management met and McDonough were made aware and said he would handle it. By June 14 Aldrich was gone. There is a very small amount of time for players who were involved in the Stanley Cup final to be aware of what was occurring to a Black Ace. If Beach were a roster player, I could maybe see your point. This was not an ongoing situation for years.
The harassment did not occur until training camp and almost no details about this were provided.
We're arguing in circles. One clarification I have is that I don't think the harassment happened before training camp.
So what you've got here is that Seabrook may or may not have cast some stupid homophobic slurs in training camp over a decade ago, therefore he is not of good enough moral character to give specific skills training to professional hockey defencemen?
It's quite obvious he had nothing to do with the actual crime. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has accused him of being in on what Aldrich did, and nobody with personal knowledge of the situation has accused him of knowing it was going on at the time. At this point, you're down to some pretty weak sauce.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jay Random For This Useful Post:
So what you've got here is that Seabrook may or may not have cast some stupid homophobic slurs in training camp over a decade ago, therefore he is not of good enough moral character to give specific skills training to professional hockey defencemen?
It's quite obvious he had nothing to do with the actual crime. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has accused him of being in on what Aldrich did, and nobody with personal knowledge of the situation has accused him of knowing it was going on at the time. At this point, you're down to some pretty weak sauce.
No. I am not even touching on the idea that Seabrook was the one throwing the insults. If he was, and I knew he was I wouldn't even be arguing here. I'd be calling people out for even remotely accepting the idea that Seabrook be allowed back into the league and then blocking them because I want people who would do that hard things to teach them.
I am arguing everyone in the Blackhawks organization in that time is stained by what happened. Anyone that didn't speak up, hasn't spoken up and sat back and did nothing should wear what happened forever because sometimes even inaction is wrong. I have at no point said that he should never work again. I at no point have said he should be barred. I do think less of him for staying quiet. I do think I wouldn't want him anywhere near the young players on my team.
No. I am not even touching on the idea that Seabrook was the one throwing the insults. If he was, and I knew he was I wouldn't even be arguing here. I'd be calling people out for even remotely accepting the idea that Seabrook be allowed back into the league and then blocking them because I want people who would do that hard things to teach them.
I am arguing everyone in the Blackhawks organization in that time is stained by what happened. Anyone that didn't speak up, hasn't spoken up and sat back and did nothing should wear what happened forever because sometimes even inaction is wrong. I have at no point said that he should never work again. I at no point have said he should be barred. I do think less of him for staying quiet. I do think I wouldn't want him anywhere near the young players on my team.
In other words, you find him guilty by association with no evidence specifically linking him to anything. You also believe that a verbal insult is cause to permanently destroy anyone's career for life, no matter what they do subsequently.
If the day comes when you are judged by such a standard, you are not going to like it.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Jay Random For This Useful Post:
You know, I was wondering if some stupid #### like this was going to come up as this argument was occurring. I was pleasantly surprised and quite happy it didn't. So of course someone had to say something stupid as it was dying down and everyone was sort of coming to terms with the fact no opinions were changing.
Go read the thread about the trade, dweeb.
Why are you so angry at everything? I was a victim of assault (just a guy continually poking every other co-worker in the butthole regardless of gender). I still think it's wise to have an open enough mind to realize that not every player may have known about Kyle Beach being assaulted. Just because one player says everyone knew doesn't make it true...it just means they knew and probably want to share that guilt with others.
Calling someone you disagree with a dweeb just makes you look like a stupid schoolyard bully.
The Following User Says Thank You to CF84 For This Useful Post:
Calling someone you disagree with a dweeb just makes you look like a stupid schoolyard bully.
Oh lawdy.
I didn't call him a dweeb because I disagree with him. He didn't actually make a point to agree or disagree with. I called him a dweeb because what he did was make a disingenuous, bad faith comment to try and discredit what I was saying. And while I may not agree with what everyone is saying here, I would not describe anything that we are arguing as bad faith or disingenuous until that. He deserved to be called out for that. As an aside, I don't think I've ever had anyone accuse me of "being angry".
__________________
THANK MR DEMKO
CPHL Ottawa Vancouver
The Following User Says Thank You to Blaster86 For This Useful Post:
I didn't call him a dweeb because I disagree with him. He didn't actually make a point to agree or disagree with. I called him a dweeb because what he did was make a disingenuous, bad faith comment to try and discredit what I was saying. And while I may not agree with what everyone is saying here, I would not describe anything that we are arguing as bad faith or disingenuous until that. He deserved to be called out for that. As an aside, I don't think I've ever had anyone accuse me of "being angry".
You seem angry. I could argue that you are angry because of the evidence I have in front of me. If you're not angry then I guess I'm wrong because I don't actually know what you actually feel or know about yourself. It's the same with all of the Blackhawk players. The management obviously knew and they are first to blame. Did all the staff and players have knowledge that there was an assault? It's stupid to be upset at people if you don't know the answer to that question.
Be upset at the management and ownership, because they are the ones who knew there was an assault. If the players and staff knew and did nothing then they suck too.
Just for clarity, here is the direct quote from section of the Jenner & Block independent report that deals with the players' knowledge about the sexual assault. I am posting it because it differs significantly from the ChatGPT summary of the report, which most posters on this thread seem to be referring to.
'Two former Blackhawks players claimed in their interviews and publicly in 2021 that, during the 2010 playoffs, “everyone” knew about Aldrich engaging in inappropriate conduct with players. In particular, Brent Sopel claimed in his interview and publicly that “everyone” was talking about how Aldrich wanted to “touch penises” during the 2010 playoffs and that “everyone” knew. Nick Boynton stated in his interview and publicly that during the 2010 playoffs, numerous Blackhawks players asked him what happened regarding Aldrich. We pressed Sopel and Boynton for details regarding which conversations, and with whom, led them to believe that “everyone” knew about Aldrich engaging in inappropriate conduct with players. Neither Boynton nor Sopel could provide many details. Interviews of players from the 2010 Blackhawks’ roster contradicted the claims that “everyone” knew—of the 14 players on the 2010 roster whom we interviewed, 6 players told us they had no knowledge of inappropriate conduct by Aldrich. Former Blackhawks players Brent Sopel and Nick Boynton publicly identified themselves in 2021 and made public statements about theirknowledge of certain events in 2010, and 6 players told us they only learned about inappropriate conduct through rumors after Aldrich separated from the Blackhawks in June 2010. Two players—Sopel and Boynton—stated that they heard about inappropriate conduct by Aldrich before he separated from the team.'
So, to be clear, there is no public documentation about who Sopel was referring to when he claimed that "everyone" knew, nor was Sopel willing and able to disclose to the independent investigation to whom he was referring when he claimed that "everyone" knew. In particular, there is no public documentation that indicates that Seabrook was aware of the abuse. There is also no public documentation regarding whether or not Seabrook took any action (such as, for example, reporting the alleged abuse to team management, being unaware that management was complicit in covering up the abuse). It's a pretty large logical jump to conclude that Seabrook was aware of the abuse and also that Seabrook took no action, based solely on Sopel's claim that "everyone" knew about the abuse, but unfortunately this is the sort of logical leap that ChatGPT has been well documented to make.
Craig Conroy has been quite vocal about the kind of positive and supportive culture he is trying to build around the Flames. The organization's most valuable assets are its young prospects, and this is the group that Seabrook is most likely to be working with in his assigned role. It would seem unlikely that Conroy would want a person of questionable moral character working with impressionable young men, putting those assets at risk. It would seem most likely that Conroy asked Seabrook about the case prior to hiring him, and was satisfied that either Seabrook was unaware of the assault, or that his actions on becoming aware of the assault were appropriate and reasonable.
It would be nice if the Flames would publicly address this concern and clearly state that the issue has been investigated and addressed to their satisfaction, to help alleviate some of the doubt surrounding this hiring.
Last edited by Macindoc; 07-04-2025 at 11:18 PM.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Macindoc For This Useful Post:
Do people really think Craig Conroy would hire someone who was somehow involved in covering up sexual abuse? You think his wife and three daughters would allow him to do that? You think Jarome Iginla, and his wife and daughter would allow that to happen?
Jesus Christ. I’ve stayed out of this as long as I can, but it’s starting to become insulting just having to read this drivel. Pro tip: if “everyone knew” about it happening, then no one would have needed to report it to anyone because everyone would have already known.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to FanIn80 For This Useful Post:
