American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

So of those things you listed above, how many were actual government policies by the Obama and Biden admins and how many were just things that loud college leftists yell about online?

Furthermore, how many of those are actual major problems, and how many of those are freaked out about by right-wing media, and made out to be massively larger problems than they actually are? Kind of like trans athletes in sports.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This isn't necessarily my opinion of why things went too far (it's not like any of it drove me right as I feel I've long been helplessly sitting, watching things unfold) as it doesn't take a genius to figure out that going to far on this stuff would start to alienate a large population of moderates.

-Cancel culture
-Woke capitalism/opportunism
-Virtue signaling
-Identity politics
-Moral superiority

There's a subset of the population that is staunch left and right. Those people have made up their minds and their opinions will likely not waver. At the end of they day they don't matter. What Fuzz and other extreme leftists need to understand is that overreaching and and alienating moderate supporters is not the way to gain majority acceptance and will never be the right way. This "you are either with us or against us" mentality of the far left is it's greatest failing and the reason far right activists have gained so much traction all around the world. People got burned out by all of this and it's not that people are leaving the left and more that the left is leaving people.

I get a sense that a lot of the leftists here are hyper focused on the far right when they should be looking at appealing the moderate supporters who ultimately decide the governing parties and the reality is that they have done a poor job especially in the USA.

"Helplessly sitting"... You have a vote. Did you use it to turn your back on the right that is going to far? I'm not about to Pepsifree your post history, but I can't say I remember you ever using your voice here to express horror at anything the right has ever done. And if you don't find horror in it, well... I guess I'm extreme left.


I don't care to coddle people that have shown zero ability to reflect on the source of the issues, and instead blame those just trying to prevent the crumbling of social norms. As if you would reflect any differently if I had come with roses and chocolate. Why should I bother? Better to call out the rediculousness of the position, if only for a little catharsis.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

-Cancel culture
-Woke capitalism/opportunism
-Virtue signaling
-Identity politics
-Moral superiority

This all just sounds like Faux News talking points to get their viewers riled up

LOL Estrada is still triggered by Druh Farrell's Bow Flow! hahahahaha

[TorqueDog]

Using our votes is pretty much the only real thing we can do, but...

Originally Posted by Fuzz

"Helplessly sitting"... You have a vote. Did you use it to turn your back on the right that is going to far? I'm not about to Pepsifree your post history, but I can't say I remember you ever using your voice here to express horror at anything the right has ever done. And if you don't find horror in it, well... I guess I'm extreme left.

... lol. Yeah, Erick, did you EVER start crying out in horror into the CalgaryPuck discussion forum to influence the direction of society at large? DID YOU?

The vast majority of posters here all agree on this stuff to varying degrees and I think you can find evidence of most of our posters here expressing sentiments of dismay. I don't think Erick ticking a box for you personally in his post history is really the yardstick worth applying here. Hell, I look at a lot of this stuff and go "oh, for f-ck's sake" and close the thread before I get depressed at the state of society over over it. It doesn't mean I don't share the viewpoint because I don't feel compelled to join in the circlejerk of misery with everyone. My mental wellbeing is worth more than that. There's grass to touch outside.

Also worth pointing out that U.S. Representative McBride made similar points in her chat with Ezra Klein re: being strategic in how to win over moderates and the alienation of 'imperfect' allies... and considering they've actually accomplished something in the political sphere in a place where the odds are stacked against them to a dramatically higher degree, it leads me to believe they might actually have a clue what they're talking about.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

LOL Estrada is still triggered by Druh Farrell's Bow Flow! hahahahaha

If I was EE, my response to you would be something along the lines of, “and I know you are a fan but stalking me through multiple threads is just weird. haha”.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Wormius

If I was EE, my response to you would be something along the lines of, “and I know you are a fan but stalking me through multiple threads is just weird. haha”.

wow living rent free in your head! hahaha. how long ago was that?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I've rarely heard that term get used. If the Latino community thinks it's dumb it should go away. The same goes for "unhoused" vs "homeless". I've never heard anyone on the street use the former, and I don't think the latter is offensive to those living on the street. They've got bigger problems to worry about.


Neither example are reasons to vote for Trump.

Latin-x was definitely picking up on usage in the 2000s on the media and by Democrats but the community themselves started voicing their objections to it and has since mostly gone away which is good. Funny you mentioned "unhoused" as I think I started hearing this maybe a year or so ago and asked in one of the threads here why the new term and was told because "homeless" is offensive.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

wow living rent free in your head! hahaha. how long ago was that?

It was a month ago, but I guess when you spend all your time ####posting, it can be hard to keep your story straight. So, I guess you landed on stalking across threads ?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It was a month ago, but I guess when you spend all your time ####posting, it can be hard to keep your story straight. So, I guess you landed on stalking across threads ?

hahaha. sure mr. insignificant. not sure what you bring here... lol

I can't even recall what that was about. haha but sure, stalk away.

How long have you been holding that post in dude?

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I mean they kind of did by taking things too far with wokeness which cultivated the whole MAGA movement. The biggest lesson to take from all this is for the left's to be more moderate when they regain power. It's not an excuse for what Trump and the Republicans are doing but it's the reason they got into power. This whole extreme left/right thing isn't working for the masses.

That's like saying she was asking for cause of how she was dressed.
Ridiculous.
It's called progress, not wokeness.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Furthermore, how many of those are actual major problems, and how many of those are freaked out about by right-wing media, and made out to be massively larger problems than they actually are? Kind of like trans athletes in sports.

Kitty litter in bathrooms… just absurd nonsense.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yeah I was looking for actual examples
What actually changed that went too far?

This one is easy. It’s taxation of the rich. That’s it. That’s all. Full pedal to the metal to make that stop, control everything, buy everything… make the poors argue amongst themselves.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

hahaha. sure mr. insignificant. not sure what you bring here... lol

I can't even recall what that was about. haha but sure, stalk away.

How long have you been holding that post in dude?

lol. How long were you been holding EE’s post in dude? lol. Don’t hate because my memory is better than yours. lol.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Wormius

lol. How long were you been holding EE’s post in dude? lol. Don’t hate because my memory is better than yours. lol.

Well of course your memory is better. you are a stalker! lol

I guess if you were more memorable I could remember what I did to set you off. but I guess you don't post anything of significance, so sorry I don't remember! lol

I'd ask you to put me on ignore but I guess that's impossible since you are obsessed with me... hahaha

This is just hilarious you waited a month to pull out that 'zinger'! hahaha and kinda embarrassing.

[Looch City]

We're like deep into fascist territory and still debating if cancel culture and wokeness were what led us to this.

America is so ####ed haha.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Well of course your memory is better. you are a stalker! lol

I guess if you were more memorable I could remember what I did to set you off. but I guess you don't post anything of significance, so sorry I don't remember! lol

I'd ask you to put me on ignore but I guess that's impossible since you are obsessed with me... hahaha

This is just hilarious you waited a month to pull out that 'zinger'! hahaha and kinda embarrassing.

Wow, and you waited a whole month between getting all pissy about someone bringing up an idiotic comments you made in other thread and stalking EE. Congrats there.

Anyway, I am not interested at all in being memorable the way you are, so don’t take it as a compliment, it’s merely a testament to the unhinged and delusional spectacle you are.

[PepsiFree]

Things I hate about the extreme left:
- wokeism
- cancel culture
- how woke they are
- the way they cancel people
- how they virtue signal about how woke they are
- how they like… vote on gay issues if they’re gay!
- how some of them identify as people!
- how companies virtue signal about how woke they are
- how they think they’re better than me because they identify as things
- how they think they’re better than me because they are more woke than me
- how they won’t cater to me even though i say im an ally but just criticize them constantly
- how they think they’re better than me just in general

It’s definitely a problem with the extreme left, and not me.

Signed, centrist and lonely.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick
Estrada;9470839

This isn't necessarily my opinion of why things went too far (it's not like any of it drove me right as I feel I've long been helplessly sitting, watching things unfold) as it doesn't take a genius to figure out that going to far on this stuff would start to alienate a large population of moderates.

-Cancel culture
-Woke capitalism/opportunism
-Virtue signaling
-Identity politics
-Moral superiority

There's a subset of the population that is staunch left and right. Those people have made up their minds and their opinions will likely not waver. At the end of they day they don't matter. What Fuzz and other extreme leftists need to understand is that overreaching and and alienating moderate supporters is not the way to gain majority acceptance and will never be the right way. This "you are either with us or against us" mentality of the far left is it's greatest failing and the reason far right activists have gained so much traction all around the world. People got burned out by all of this and it's not that people are leaving the left and more that the left is leaving people.

I get a sense that a lot of the leftists here are hyper focused on the far right when they should be looking at appealing the moderate supporters who ultimately decide the governing parties and the reality is that they have done a poor job especially in the USA.

Cancel culture has always been primarily a right wing thing. Dixie Chicks are often considered the first modern major case of an actual cancelation, but all throughout history, by far the most common and best know cases of collective ostracization due to real or perceived moral transgression has been a mainly conservative impulse. This goes back much further than even the concept of left and right politics. The current GOP politics were primarily built on canceling everyone who doesn't fall in line, starting with the Tea Party movement, and their whole thing is currently "you're either with us or you're an enemy of the state".

Virtue signaling and identity politics are 100% bipartisan, just different virtues and different identities. For the right the main "virtue" being signaled is currently ranting about pronouns, bathrooms, two genders, trans people and books with gay themes... and of course limiting abortion, even when it makes zero sense and hurts everyone.

And the right literally have called themselves "the moral majority" since I don't know how far back, at least since the 60s.

As for "Woke capitalism", this is by far the stupidest part on the list. Corporations literally "went woke" simply because it was extremely popular. The idea that moderates were somehow upset or alienated about it is ridiculous, it's just not how any of it works. In fact the right used to regularly cry about the fact that they just don't have the numbers to do for example effective boycotts, and needed to spend a lot of time organizing and strategizing to get around that fundamental fact they themselves admitted. If you felt alienated by "woke capitalism", by definition you were significantly to the conservative side of average Americans.

(Of course the left also generally doesn't have the numbers to do effective boycotts. Tesla sales tanking the way they have is an extreme anomaly.)

Stop eating the rights BS.

[CliffFletcher]

If you want to find actual Democrat policies that were unpopular with voters, the obvious place is immigration.

How Democrats Lost Their Way on Immigration

… under President Biden, we had the largest surge of immigration over a short period in American history. The pace was even faster than the peak pace of the Ellis Island years of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. We had eight million net immigrants come into the country. It appears that about five million of them entered illegally, a vastly faster pace than under Trump or Obama. You had Biden telling people during the 2020 campaign that he wanted more people to come to the country and then loosening a whole bunch of policies. Almost immediately, immigration surged. And it was never what most American voters wanted. It particularly was not what lower-income voters across races wanted. It was unpopular from the beginning. And it happened in large part—not exclusively, but in large part—because of the policies they enacted...

… I’ve gone back and read every Democratic Party platform on immigration in the twenty-first century, and you see this pretty radical shift between 2012 and 2020. Under Obama, in 2012, it’s this really balanced approach. It brags about having the border be more secure than at any point in the previous decades. It talks about deporting criminals who endanger our communities. It also, of course, talks about this being a nation of immigrants and needing to provide a citizenship pathway for undocumented people who follow the law. And it celebrates Dreamers and all of that stuff.

And then it starts to move in 2016. And by 2020, there’s not a single sentence in the Democratic Party platform on immigration that is about border security. All of the mentions of deportations are essentially negative, and it repeatedly talks about the idea that we should make it easier for people to enter the country. And, if you look at the polling, there’s just no evidence that that is ever what Americans wanted. It was part of this broader shift to the left of the Democratic Party between roughly 2015 and 2020 to follow the wishes of very progressive, largely affluent members.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...on-immigration

The immigration policies Trump is enforcing today are unpopular with Americans as well (not to mention unconstitutional). A moderate approach to immigration would find support with most Americans. But influential elements of both the Democrats and Republicans drive their party’s policies towards extremes.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Wow, and you waited a whole month between getting all pissy about someone bringing up an idiotic comments you made in other thread and stalking EE. Congrats there.

Anyway, I am not interested at all in being memorable the way you are, so don’t take it as a compliment, it’s merely a testament to the unhinged and delusional spectacle you are.

Rent Free! lol