Calgary EMS Workers going on strike

[Reggie Dunlop]

EMS guys threatened to break your nose?

I've heard of work creation programs.....

[Reggie Dunlop]

My personal experience with EMS technicians is rooming with a pair of them in a small town just outside the city. They were volunteers putting in untold hours, although most of the time they sat in the living room on call.

They ran laundry in the middle of the night, poached the fridge, and their blasted radio sqawked all the time, but other than that, they were swell fellers.

Heard their stories. Couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I understand all of that. But to clarify is it your position that someone working in the public sector should be able to make a high income?

If someone enters the public sector they shoud no what they are getting into.

Let me ask you this. How much would be willing to pay out of you own pocket in extra taxes to facilitate the wages you think EMT's should get?

No...I never said that at all. They should get paid what they are worth....and they are worth what they are asking. Like I said before....when an administrator makes more than someone who's main responsibility is to keep someone alive....there is something wrong.

Lets take a look at a few jobs posted right now for the city of Calgary.

Divisional Secretary - Salary 40,365 to 54,000
System Administrator 3 - Salary 59,877 - 90,409
Computer Support Technician - Salary 45,786 - 61,230
Community Recreation Coord - Salary 54,268 - 72,579
Irrigation Central Computer Op - Salary 40,365 - 54,000
CPIC Operator - Salary 43,000 - 57,505
Pilates Instructor - Salary 31.00/hr to 39.00/hr


And lets not forget that people have to pay for any EMS service so it is one of the only public service services that has a substancial administration fee to off set the cost of the program.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If someone enters the public sector they shoud no what they are getting into.

If someone enters ANY profession, they should know what they are getting into. Too much boo hoo, I didnt know "___" was so tough, or that we had to work night shift, or whatever. You don't like the job, you move on, unless the problems are turly unreasonable, then you try to fix it. I am a public servant and I cant stand how unionized members are brainwashed to think that life owes these people any and everything....

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is depressing when you are in a meeting with someone, some company and you know instantly what the decison will be and should be, yet because of cowardice and laziness it will go on for 6 months because of "process".

###

its hard because a simple decision ALWAYS turns into way way way more than it ever needed to be, if only the idiots involved would treat govt/municipal/provincial money as their own.

also, for all these people who say 'pay the emt's more', OK, but are you prepared to pay more in taxes to cover it? are you prepared to actually take a stance against corrupt governments and reckless spending? are you prepared to give up a sliver of your north-american-decadent lifesyle to help create a world where the most important professions get paid the most?

its not just a little problem, it goes all directions and it wont stop until something huge happens that unites all of us together, or the people stand up and actually complain and vote honest elected officals in...

ok, ill get off the soapbox now

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

No...I never said that at all. They should get paid what they are worth....and they are worth what they are asking. Like I said before....when an administrator makes more than someone who's main responsibility is to keep someone alive....there is something wrong.

Lets take a look at a few jobs posted right now for the city of Calgary.

Divisional Secretary - Salary 40,365 to 54,000
System Administrator 3 - Salary 59,877 - 90,409
Computer Support Technician - Salary 45,786 - 61,230
Community Recreation Coord - Salary 54,268 - 72,579
Irrigation Central Computer Op - Salary 40,365 - 54,000
CPIC Operator - Salary 43,000 - 57,505
Pilates Instructor - Salary 31.00/hr to 39.00/hr

OK and the average salary of EMS workers is 75K. According to this article:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...7af457&k=48549

So it would seem they are doing just fine no?

Even if 25K of that figure is overtime that means they are still making 50K+ year.

You say they should be paid what they are worth...how does one determine that though?

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Even if 25K of that figure is overtime that means they are still making 50K+ year.

how many hours a week though? is it night shift and weekends?

that plays a part too

how about benefits, etc?

its not just 50k a year base pay, because in this economy, no thats not good enough

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK and the average salary of EMS workers is 75K. According to this article:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...7af457&k=48549

So it would seem they are doing just fine no?

Even if 25K of that figure is overtime that means they are still making 50K+ year.

You say they should be paid what they are worth...how does one determine that though?

How many times do we have to go over this??? That is with OVER TIME...... Therefore....most of those jobs pay more than EMT...

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

How many times do we have to go over this??? That is with OVER TIME...... Therefore....most of those jobs pay more than EMT...

Frankly I don't care if it pays over-time or not. I've worked well over 40 hours a week for my entire career and get paid for none of it. That's an advantage of working for the public sector - you actually get paid OT.

You can't eliminate it from the conversation - it's perfectly relevent.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

how many hours a week though? is it night shift and weekends?

that plays a part too

how about benefits, etc?

its not just 50k a year base pay, because in this economy, no thats not good enough

Maybe I'm completely out of touch with what's happening in this city, but i know many people surviving on 50K or less. Not everyone is getting the big wages from this boom. If you're working in small business or other industries 50K is still a good wage.

[moon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

How many times do we have to go over this??? That is with OVER TIME...... Therefore....most of those jobs pay more than EMT...

So the fact that Jiri clearly states in his post that even if it is OT doesn't clue you in to the fact that he knows it is OT?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Any company that expects free overtime is basically stealing from their employees. Might as well scoop down into the trousers and lift the wallet. Time is money, and that goes for employees too.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Any company that expects free overtime is basically stealing from their employees. Might as well scoop down into the trousers and lift the wallet. Time is money, and goes for employees too.

In some industries its simply the way it is. If you work in them you do so knowing that it comes with that.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

In some industries its simply the way it is. If you work in them you do so knowing that it comes with that.

Hate to say it, but then you're chumps. You're being exploited.

Unpaid overtime is thievery.

Fifteen minutes extra here or half an hour extra there -- you take off early every now and then. Bit of give and take no problem. No need for a punchclock.

Past that? I don't care what industry it is.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by moon

So the fact that Jiri clearly states in his post that even if it is OT doesn't clue you in to the fact that he knows it is OT?

Obviously not because he keeps trying to compare OT salary with non-OT salary....

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Obviously not because he keeps trying to compare OT salary with non-OT salary....

I noted that fact that it was an OT salary. But since the only information we have is that, and non-OT for the other positions I'm not sure how else we can make comparisons. If you have other figures I'd be more than willing to compare those.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Someone posted the non OT salaries on page 2 I believe

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Obviously not because he keeps trying to compare OT salary with non-OT salary....

It's all about base salary. That's the high water mark. Being short-staffed and being compelled to work overtime is not the employee's problem. He's just showing up for work. His job isn't to recruit new employees to alleviate the problem.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Someone posted the non OT salaries on page 2 I believe

Yes indeed here we go:
EMT's make 46367 - average high/low brackets
Paramedics make 54625 - average high/low brackets

So a 30% raise would equate:

EMT = 60277.1
Paramedics = 71013.15

So with a bit of a raise they are at 50K - as a base salary I still don't see why that is so low.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

It's all about base salary. That's the high water mark. Being short-staffed and being compelled to work overtime is not the employee's problem. He's just showing up for work.

Again I disagree. There are a lot of people that don't get paid overtime and have to work more than 40 hours a week. As has been noted in past discussion, teachers don't get paid for the hours they invest at home. People working for small businesses don't get paid OT a lot of the time.

I've worked in 3 distinct industries and OT was never paid in any of them. But there were other advantages that made it OK. Maybe that's what makes me a chump but that's simply that way it is in those areas - if you want to work in them you suck it up and do it.

That's what makes discussion like these so impossible. We are evaluating something without really understanding the positives and negatives of any one position.

My point from the start though has been if they are asking for more money I want to understand what has changed in their position to warrant an increase beyond an inflationary increase. If those reasons are there, then I'm all for a more substantial increase.