Unfortunately those are rational conditions, and rationality isn't really a strong point of existential religious warmongers. If you promised them success in death, they'd ask where to sign.
President Netanyahu declared the war a historic victory for Israel. President Pezeshkian declared it a great victory for Iran.
Around 1000 Iranians and a couple of dozen Israelis died. More than 6000 people were injured (split fairly evenly). Around 150 people arrested in Iran as suspected Mossad agents, at least 2 have already been executed and more likely to come
Billions of Israeli, Iranian and US taxpayer money was spent in the form of spent or destroyed military materiel, not to mention all the collateral damage especially in Iran.
Experts estimate Irans ability to produce nuclear weapons was maybe slowed down by some months.
It remains unclear how actively Iran was ever pursuing a nuclear weapon, and it's even more unclear whether these attacks are more likely to increase or decrease their desire to nuke up.
Profit?
Last edited by Itse; 06-25-2025 at 01:32 AM.
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President Netanyahu declared the war a historic victory for Israel. President Pezeshkian declared it a great victory for Iran.
Around 1000 Iranians and a couple of dozen Israelis died. More than 6000 people were injured (split fairly evenly). Around 150 people arrested in Iran as suspected Mossad agents, at least 2 have already been executed and more likely to come
Billions of Israeli, Iranian and US taxpayer money was spent in the form of spent or destroyed military materiel, not to mention all the collateral damage especially in Iran.
Experts estimate Irans ability to produce nuclear weapons was maybe slowed down by some months.
It remains unclear how actively Iran was ever pursuing a nuclear weapon, and it's even more unclear whether these attacks are more likely to increase or decrease their desire to nuke up.
Profit?
Iran executed 975 people in last year, an average of 2.67 people per day. Not that adding more people on top of that isn't bad. Murdering their citizens is just a daily fact of life for the Iranian regime.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Iran executed 975 people in last year, an average of 2.67 people per day. Not that adding more people on top of that isn't bad. Murdering their citizens is just a daily fact of life for the Iranian regime.
Okay, how is this relevant? Is the regime better now?
Does it make the captured Mossad agents and the falsely accused feel better that they are not alone?
President Netanyahu declared the war a historic victory for Israel. President Pezeshkian declared it a great victory for Iran.
Around 1000 Iranians and a couple of dozen Israelis died. More than 6000 people were injured (split fairly evenly). Around 150 people arrested in Iran as suspected Mossad agents, at least 2 have already been executed and more likely to come
Billions of Israeli, Iranian and US taxpayer money was spent in the form of spent or destroyed military materiel, not to mention all the collateral damage especially in Iran.
Experts estimate Irans ability to produce nuclear weapons was maybe slowed down by some months.
It remains unclear how actively Iran was ever pursuing a nuclear weapon, and it's even more unclear whether these attacks are more likely to increase or decrease their desire to nuke up.
Profit?
Lol where's all the folks saying how big of a win this was for the whole region and now we can achieve peace and all live happy and forever and sing kumbaya??
Okay, how is this relevant? Is the regime better now?
Does it make the captured Mossad agents and the falsely accused feel better that they are not alone?
I mean, fixing any of those issues requires replacing the regime in Iran, which almost certainly requires a full-scale ground invasion. Iran has a population of like 90MM and is industrialized - it would be like Afghanistan times 10.
It's possible to think the Iranian regime is heinous without believing the west should invade.
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I guess my point was that the Iranian regime does what they do because of who they are. They still accuse people of practicing black magic in the 21st century. You can't really equate recent events with their willingness to execute people over false accusations. It can't be blamed on anyone else but the regime because they will find any excuse to pin stuff on dissidents. I wouldn't put it past them if some or most of the "mossad agents" are just some of those Gen Zers who were celebrating the Israeli attacks on social media.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 06-25-2025 at 02:27 PM.
I mean, fixing any of those issues requires replacing the regime in Iran, which almost certainly requires a full-scale ground invasion. Iran has a population of like 90MM and is industrialized - it would be like Afghanistan times 10.
It's possible to think the Iranian regime is heinous without believing the west should invade.
I feel like you've mixed up who said what or something, this doesn't seem relevant to my post.
Intervening in a country, regime change if you will, is roughly the same dynamic you get when you step in to stop some POS raising his hand to his wife or girlfriend, there's a damn good chance you end up trying to fight both of them.
Nothing has strengthened the Shia leadership of Iran more than US intervention in the region, the Iranians may not like there leadership but they are just as proud as Americans or Canadians and don't want some corrupt supine regime inflicted on them by the US
President Netanyahu declared the war a historic victory for Israel. President Pezeshkian declared it a great victory for Iran.
Around 1000 Iranians and a couple of dozen Israelis died. More than 6000 people were injured (split fairly evenly). Around 150 people arrested in Iran as suspected Mossad agents, at least 2 have already been executed and more likely to come
Billions of Israeli, Iranian and US taxpayer money was spent in the form of spent or destroyed military materiel, not to mention all the collateral damage especially in Iran.
Experts estimate Irans ability to produce nuclear weapons was maybe slowed down by some months.
It remains unclear how actively Iran was ever pursuing a nuclear weapon, and it's even more unclear whether these attacks are more likely to increase or decrease their desire to nuke up.
Profit?
Doesn't look convincing at all.
Nobody has a clue about real damage at Fordo. The site is deep underground and there's no way to figure out except for excavate the centrifuges and see. All those estimates, both positive and negative, are just people making things up. This includes "US intelligence assessment", unless they have a credible explaination on how exactly did they assess the state of centrifuges 100 meters underground under a bombed out entrance.
And when people say that Iran's ability to produce nukes is slowed down for merely months, they mean that it would take some months to rebuild what was bombed out. They miss that nobody will let them do it. If Iranians would try to excavate centrifuges from Fordo, they will be bombed on the spot. Hence, it doesn't even matter if centrifuges are destroyed or not.
Nobody has a clue about real damage at Fordo. The site is deep underground and there's no way to figure out except for excavate the centrifuges and see. All those estimates, both positive and negative, are just people making things up. This includes "US intelligence assessment", unless they have a credible explaination on how exactly did they assess the state of centrifuges 100 meters underground under a bombed out entrance.
That's why I put a "maybe" in there. It is in any case the best estimate we have, and centrifuges are hardly peak scifi tech to begin with.
If I start that entence with "it's unclear what effect the bombing campaign had, but experts estimate...", do you feel like that makes a significant difference?
Also, we really should begin with the fact that we don't even know wtf Fordo was all about. It seems extremely convenient that the western public is given the name of exactly one place we're told is Very Special but needs the US to get involved, then That One Place is hit and it's now "mission accomplished". Extremely basic media literacy should tell you that if the narrative is that clean and simple, it's probably covered in at least some amount of BS.
Not that any of that really changes anything.
"It is unclear whether the campaign made it more likely that Iran will eventually nuke up, or less" is really the factually accurate summary that matters.
Edit:
Pointman, I sympathize with you, I really do. I don't think k you're a bad person or dumb. What little I know about you makes it very easy to understand why you can't think straight when it comes to any of this.
But it's still very obvious that you can't think straight about any of this, and you clearly consume more than a healthy amount of propaganda. Which again is very understandable.
But still, there is clearly no point in debating with you.
Last edited by Itse; 06-25-2025 at 11:53 PM.
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