[News] NHL investigating whether Oilers used Kane LTIR cap relief in compliance with CBA

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That is weird. That would be medical malpractice, not just cap circumvention. Getting an unnecessary operation?

Knee surgery isn't cosmetic surgery, presumably it is always being done to fix something or make something stronger.

It was probably something like a minor cleaning that players can easily play through and can be performed after the season. The thinking is that they made him have it because his other ailment was healed and they wanted to continue holding him out.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Kind of like the time Roman Turek retired out of the blue just to save the Flames money, right? Totally in character for aging NHL players.

Turek was before the new CBA structure and at the time they were able to restructure the contract. Different times.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Turek was before the new CBA structure and at the time they were able to restructure the contract. Different times.

You're incorrect. Turek had one year left on his deal that would have covered the season after the lockout, which was 2005-06. We were up against the salary cap, which had just come into effect that summer. You're honestly telling me you don't think he collected any money from the Flames for retiring and saving them two million dollars against a 39 million salary cap?

[Jiri Hrdina]

You think they paid him under the table?

[Red Potato Standing By]

So they should have used rules that weren’t in place yet? They were still in the old CBA when they renegotiated were they not, so the remaining years should not be relevant.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

You're incorrect. Turek had one year left on his deal that would have covered the season after the lockout, which was 2005-06. We were up against the salary cap, which had just come into effect that summer. You're honestly telling me you don't think he collected any money from the Flames for retiring and saving them two million dollars against a 39 million salary cap?

Turek was already playing in the Czech league during the lockout and had taken time off for both injury and "personal reasons" in his last NHL season. Plus he'd already shown willingness to give up money for free by restructuring his contract. I think he just wanted to stay at home after the lockout.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Turek was before the new CBA structure and at the time they were able to restructure the contract. Different times.

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

You're incorrect. Turek had one year left on his deal that would have covered the season after the lockout, which was 2005-06. We were up against the salary cap, which had just come into effect that summer. You're honestly telling me you don't think he collected any money from the Flames for retiring and saving them two million dollars against a 39 million salary cap?

Roman Turek restructured his contract in July of 2004, before the CBA expired two months later in September. He had two years left on his contract that turned into three.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040822...y.asp?id=89653

7/1/2004

Flames goaltender Roman Turek has taken one for the team.


According to the Calgary Herald, the Flames back-up goalie has restructured his contract in a move that could save the Flames as much as $3 to $4 million next season.


The restructured three-year deal reportedly has a low base salary with bonus clauses for appearances, wins and team accomplishments. Turek had two years remaining on his original deal that would have paid him nearly $10-million.

The money saved will provide some much needed financial flexibility for the Flames who are looking to re-sign star winger Jarome Iginla and starting goalie Mikka Kiprusoff.


"I want to win a Stanley Cup in Calgary," Turek told the Herald. "This will make it possible to do that and to remain in a city that my family and I love."

After the NHL lockout he decided to stay home and finish his career.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/tur...agent-1.530591
That is an article on the speculation at the time, it turned out to be true.

[MegaErtz]

Yes, so he stayed home and agreed to just leave millions on the table, conveniently right when the salary cap came into effect?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I mean yeah maybe he wanted to be home

[browna]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Yes, so he stayed home and agreed to just leave millions on the table, conveniently right when the salary cap came into effect?

Yeah. Home for a year made him realize he didn't need to come back here for 1 or 2 years to sit behind Kiprusoff 60+ games a year.

And, different rules for retiring players then is in place now, even with the cap that was on place.

Regardless thats a lot different than Mike Smith, post season, adamantly saying for a week or two he had no intention of retiring and, shooting down the press' (planted) speculation that he was injured.

Or Kane, hardly a poster boy for doing the right thing in his career, having no issue in collecting a pay check while rehabbing from a surgery that could've been done days after the season (not 3 months) and after a highly elective surgery when his first surgery recovery timeline was approaching. No question he and the Oilers colluded on that scheme.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Yes, so he stayed home and agreed to just leave millions on the table, conveniently right when the salary cap came into effect?

Something less than millions, since he had one year left, his contract was mostly bonus based (under $2M max) and he also got paid by his Czech team - dunno how much.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Yes, so he stayed home and agreed to just leave millions on the table, conveniently right when the salary cap came into effect?

Yeah sure, he played four more seasons back home and drew a salary from that. Staying home during the lockout year might have had them change family plans. It happens.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

You're incorrect. Turek had one year left on his deal that would have covered the season after the lockout, which was 2005-06. We were up against the salary cap, which had just come into effect that summer. You're honestly telling me you don't think he collected any money from the Flames for retiring and saving them two million dollars against a 39 million salary cap?

Just to address this post again...you're the one that's incorrect and you're going to need to show your work saying they were up against the cap when the cap started. Never knew that before

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Just to address this post again...you're the one that's incorrect and you're going to need to show your work saying they were up against the cap when the cap started. Never knew that before

The flames were not up against the cap. It’s usual bull#### from that hater. Never seen someone hate the country and city they live in like this guy.

You can reference his posts in the Canadian men’s soccer thread. The political ones. Even here calling us a farm team to help out the big boys in the us. He called the Panthers American muscle even thought it was Canadians leading the way.

[getbak]

The Flames could have used a compliance buyout and not have the contract count against the cap and been completely within the rules of the CBA. There was no reason to attempt to do anything shady.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The flames were not up against the cap. It’s usual bull#### from that hater. Never seen someone hate the country and city they live in like this guy.

It's funny how that just gets ignored. Turek renegotiated his contract, which was allowed at the time, to lower his AAV but extend the term. I think he saw the writing on the wall that it wasn't in his best interest to become a free agent sooner. The cap wasn't an issue at the time. In the end it was a moot point because after the lockout he decided he didn't want to return to the NHL. It may have helped the owner's pocket book, but it didn't help the team get out of any cap trouble.

[BigThief]

Sutter signed both Tony Amonte and Roman Hamrlik coming out of the lockout for over 7 million total cap hit. The idea that the Flames were right up against the cap and had to pay Turek under the table because of a contract the previous summer (and previous cba) is ludicrous. MegaErtz you're just throwing crap out there hoping no one calls you on it

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I think there is always some grey in medical especially knees and backs. Like "you will need this surgery at some point in your life but it doesn't have to be right now if the pain is manageable". Sometimes outcomes aren't 100% guaranteed and could make things worse. My kids buddy had a broken collar bone and they had to choose between surgery or not and it was a 50/50 type decision. And his dad is a doctor and wasn't sure.

Sure, but no one would say surgery is unnecessary in that case. There are different treatment options, surgery may not always be the best choice.

But calling a surgery unnecessary is a little different. What kind of doctor performs unnecessary surgery? If the argument is that it could have been delayed until after the season, that would be tough to prove. Who gets to decide if pain is manageable? Unless the player was adamant he didn’t want it but the club insisted on it.

It seems all kind of weird to me.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames could have used a compliance buyout and not have the contract count against the cap and been completely within the rules of the CBA. There was no reason to attempt to do anything shady.

Turek agreeing to the restructure was a super class act from that guy. For those saying Calgary wasn’t up against the cap, you’re technically correct as there was no cap at the time (the cap came in after the 2004-05 lockout, and Turek restructured the summer before the lockout), but Calgary had a budget and there was the expectation from owners that the NHL was going to draw a hardline and negotiate a cap under the next labour agreement, which teams would need to manage.

Calgary had to also sign Kipper and Iginla (Iginla was going to be very expensive and Kipper was going to get a big payday for a goalie) and the team wanted to get better and build off the successful playoff run so they approached Turek to restructure.

That also gave them a bit more room to trade for Langkow (just after the Turek restructuring), and sign Hamrlik, as well as all of their top FAs.

It’s funny, because I remember at the time, after the cup run, Flames fans were expecting the team to get sold off for parts… but instead they really leaned into their success.

[YyjFlames]

Interesting… site posted salaries in March, 2006, year after the lockout. Keith Tkachuk was the fourth highest paid player.

http://www.hockeynut.com/0506/salaries0506.html

Calgary looks to be roughly against the cap, but I think this would have been close to the trade deadline so there were players that joined snd were traded through the year.