Why don't we just exterminate all bears?

[troutman]

I don’t disagree there will be more pressure and demand for mountain living. Certainly not mocking Sliver - it’s a topic that has to be addressed. But where does it start? There is capacity in CNP and BC. We would have to rewrite the rules in National and Provincial parks. Many Canadians feel strongly about protecting pristine wilderness and wildlife. There will be a collision.

I could see highway 40 being paved from Highwood House to Coleman one day. Twinning highway 22. What about Chain Lakes and west of Turner Valley? West of Rocky Mtn House? I don’t think I will live to see these changes, but it seems inevitable.

[Strange Brew]

I didn’t know what FYGM meant until I read this thread. I kind of like “pulling the ladder up behind you” myself.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I find this nonsense so ridiculous. Second largest landmass on earth. Thousands of square kms of wilderness. You literally drive a hundred km per hour for hours through the mountains and it’s all “but wherever could we fit another town?!” Total garbage. Oh I dunno, roads can be built? Why are we only allowed one road? Why only three towns along it? It’s insane. Guys the population has exploded in western Canada. There’s ####ing millions of people here now. It’s just reality and the preciousness of the mountains in Canada shouldn’t be the exclusive jurisdiction of the rich and wealthy.

It’s totally asinine with how much land we have to think there’s no room out there. Sorry, it just is. There’s ####ing SO much land out there and SO many lakes/ places to develop.

I notice that everyone is now just mocking Sliver because they know he’s right. They don’t have the arguments to debate so resort to calling him names and saying he’s angry etc. like, no, he’s right, you should think about your position and probably feel shame for being so NIMBY.

These days, in my mind, being NIMBY is the antithesis of what Canadians need to be especially in light of the US tariff war / situation. Another town or two is a DIRE need. Like all these billion construction workers in Calgary nonsensically tearing up roads and medians should be rounded up and immediately bussed out to start construction on a new town post haste.

Where is the quadrillion dollars coming from to time warp develop these new mountain towns into established communities that would have the depth to absorb enough demand to make even a dent in the problem?

[Royle9]

What a weird thread this is...

I had a run in with a bear when I was about 11 in Radium, fishing in a creek alone just outside the campground we were staying at.

Grizzly essentially walked up within 10 yards of me and then stood up on 2 legs from within some tall grass across the creek. Young stupid me panicked and back up about 5 feet then ran towards the campsite. Fortunately he followed (slowly) for about 15-20 yards and then lost interest.

Needless to say I've been scared of bears ever since then.
I'll avoid any chance of confrontation at all costs.

But I dont want them dead... that's for sure.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Where is the quadrillion dollars coming from to time warp develop these new mountain towns into established communities that would have the depth to absorb enough demand to make even a dent in the problem?

We restrict building anything in like 99% of it man. You can’t just prop up a development in a national park and that’s the problem and then the one town itself has restrictions. So the only actual town you can build in outside the boundaries (Canmore) is NIMBY central. You’d need the feds on board to allow development. Dude if you allowed builders to come in and develop a new town in park boundaries it would happen in 3 seconds because they’d be able to sell their developments instantly.

You can’t restrict supply to an enormous degree and then pretend there’s an argument that there’s no money out there for development or that investors aren’t interested.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

We restrict building anything in like 99% of it man. You can’t just prop up a development in a national park and that’s the problem and then the one town itself has restrictions. So the only actual town you can build in outside the boundaries (Canmore) is NIMBY central. You’d need the feds on board to allow development. Dude if you allowed builders to come in and develop a new town in park boundaries it would happen in 3 seconds because they’d be able to sell their developments instantly.

You can’t restrict supply to an enormous degree and then pretend there’s an argument that there’s no money out there for development or that investors aren’t interested.

Great, enjoy your new privately serviced residential enclave for the rich with enormous annual fees adjacent to a commercial centre with leasing rates only able to be met by niche businesses. Everyone else will continue to gravitate towards established functioning communities with public services that can’t be provided in a new builder/developer “town”.

[BlackArcher101]

Camping twice this year, 2 for 2 having bear encounters. This weekend was a little too close for comfort. Woke up to a bear pushing in the wall of my tent with it's snout and sniffing, circled me for quite a while, went on to sniff at the truck, then moved on to another campsite. That got the ol ticker beating fast.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Camping twice this year, 2 for 2 having bear encounters. This weekend was a little too close for comfort. Woke up to a bear pushing in the wall of my tent with it's snout and sniffing, circled me for quite a while, went on to sniff at the truck, then moved on to another campsite. That got the ol ticker beating fast.

Oh come on! Get out there and challenge it to Trial by Combat! You can take him!

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Where is the quadrillion dollars coming from to time warp develop these new mountain towns into established communities that would have the depth to absorb enough demand to make even a dent in the problem?

You're kidding right? If you provided planning pernission to build a new town in the mountains with basically any set of conditions (x% affordable housing, a grocery store, whatever) there would be multiple bidders vying for the opportunity.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I didn’t know what FYGM meant until I read this thread. I kind of like “pulling the ladder up behind you” myself.

Sliver's done a good job of conflating residents and magpie weekenders to try to prove his point. What's missing in his justifications that led to your post is that most people don't have a problem with more people moving to Canmore as residents. Those that come, raise a family, setup a business and participate in the community. It's never been about that, so no, it's not pulling up a ladder once they are in. Since Sliver also took a shot at me being a "new joiner", having been in Calgary since the late 90's. I moved her, got educated, found a job and career, you know, the sorts of things you do when you live in a community.

This position comes from seeing the reasons people came to the mountains vanish as condos that sit empty 80% of the time continue to get built over their favourite trails and wilderness areas. This very type of housing on limited lands ends up reducing the ability of others to move to Canmore and live there. The very thing Sliver rallies on about(elitism blocking anyone form accessing) is what his vacation property is preventing and making unattainable.

Locals have always wanted more full time residents, because they understand bussing in workers from Calgary to McDonalds makes a lot less sense than the community's youth taking their first jobs in the service industry. And parents to setup a contracting company so they don't need to have one come from Calgary or Cochrane. They need residents to run the events that bring people to the community. All the restaurants, sports and coffee shops etc? Not opened by non-residents. There will be fewer of these things that bring tourists in the first place.

And yes, they also increase taxes for residents because you still need to service these places, even if empty and not giving anything back tot he community. For instance, in the 90's Canmore built a new sewage treatment plant. I remember it being a very expensive bullet to eat at the time, but residents were convinced due to the smells. Well now Canmore needs another one because it now needs to handle the surge capacity of the weekenders too. Add in roads, water, snow clearing etc and it does add up to additional costs that wouldn't exist without the empty condos.

If you imagine a town without the condos and just residents, you then see there would be staffing available for more hotels and services for visitors, rooms that have people in them 90% of the time instead of 20%, giving far more people access to Canmore. Oh, and no golf courses taking up vast swaths of land for 4 people at a time to walk on.

Sliver presents a vision he's imprinted of Canmore on himself and what he thinks people want, without ever considering the reality of where his wants lead, and that many locals may actually have some valid points. Not that it matters at this point, the town is well on it's way to a soul-less condo valley.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sliver's done a good job of conflating residents and magpie weekenders to try to prove his point. What's missing in his justifications that led to your post is that most people don't have a problem with more people moving to Canmore as residents. Those that come, raise a family, setup a business and participate in the community. It's never been about that, so no, it's not pulling up a ladder once they are in. Since Sliver also took a shot at me being a "new joiner", having been in Calgary since the late 90's. I moved her, got educated, found a job and career, you know, the sorts of things you do when you live in a community.

This position comes from seeing the reasons people came to the mountains vanish as condos that sit empty 80% of the time continue to get built over their favourite trails and wilderness areas. This very type of housing on limited lands ends up reducing the ability of others to move to Canmore and live there. The very thing Sliver rallies on about(elitism blocking anyone form accessing) is what his vacation property is preventing and making unattainable.

Locals have always wanted more full time residents, because they understand bussing in workers from Calgary to McDonalds makes a lot less sense than the community's youth taking their first jobs in the service industry. And parents to setup a contracting company so they don't need to have one come from Calgary or Cochrane. They need residents to run the events that bring people to the community. All the restaurants, sports and coffee shops etc? Not opened by non-residents. There will be fewer of these things that bring tourists in the first place.

And yes, they also increase taxes for residents because you still need to service these places, even if empty and not giving anything back tot he community. For instance, in the 90's Canmore built a new sewage treatment plant. I remember it being a very expensive bullet to eat at the time, but residents were convinced due to the smells. Well now Canmore needs another one because it now needs to handle the surge capacity of the weekenders too. Add in roads, water, snow clearing etc and it does add up to additional costs that wouldn't exist without the empty condos.

If you imagine a town without the condos and just residents, you then see there would be staffing available for more hotels and services for visitors, rooms that have people in them 90% of the time instead of 20%, giving far more people access to Canmore. Oh, and no golf courses taking up vast swaths of land for 4 people at a time to walk on.

Sliver presents a vision he's imprinted of Canmore on himself and what he thinks people want, without ever considering the reality of where his wants lead, and that many locals may actually have some valid points. Not that it matters at this point, the town is well on it's way to a soul-less condo valley.

Well, the other thing you have with that town you're talking about is a stagnant economy and reduced tax base. Even though they're not full-time, those additional residents are paying a lot of tax to be there and spend a lot of money in the town.

[Fuzz]

If the taxes they paid were sufficient you might have a point, but the fact that taxes are not covering costs and have to continue to increase indicates a structural failure of that policy, which is why they have a non-residency tax now.

And it's also not about losing tax dollars, because Canmore would have increased hotel accommodations which also pay taxes, and more local businesses instead of having them come in from Calgary providing zero.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If the taxes they paid were sufficient you might have a point, but the fact that taxes are not covering costs and have to continue to increase indicates a structural failure of that policy, which is why they have a non-residency tax now.

And it's also not about losing tax dollars, because Canmore would have increased hotel accommodations which also pay taxes, and more local businesses instead of having them come in from Calgary providing zero.

They've tried to raise taxes on people who are not there for "enough" days each year. This was the subject of a court challenge, and I'm not sure where it stands now, but it might not become law.

And I did laugh at the "providing zero" comment. They're tourists, and what they provide is a pile of money for the local economy. I have no idea how you think that town has boomed, but it's because of that windfall. All those restaurants, gift shops, and golf courses are there because of the tourism dollars. All those jobs and that local spending; those are tourist dollars.

You sound like you want an "eat your cake and have it too" scenario. Eliminate all the weekenders while keeping the same amount of money flowing, and everything will be awesome. The thing is, it doesn't work like that.

[undercoverbrother]

Canmore is boring large truck stop

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

They've tried to raise taxes on people who are not there for "enough" days each year. This was the subject of a court challenge, and I'm not sure where it stands now, but it might not become law.

And I did laugh at the "providing zero" comment. They're tourists, and what they provide is a pile of money for the local economy. I have no idea how you think that town has boomed, but it's because of that windfall. All those restaurants, gift shops, and golf courses are there because of the tourism dollars. All those jobs and that local spending; those are tourist dollars.

You sound like you want an "eat your cake and have it too" scenario. Eliminate all the weekenders while keeping the same amount of money flowing, and everything will be awesome. The thing is, it doesn't work like that.

Sigh.

First off, the vacancy tax is happening this year.

"Providing zero" was a reference to having a Calgary company come in to do the construction work. They bring their own crew in, do the work, and leave. They don't pay taxes like a local company would, or employ locals, or sponsor local community events.

And you seem to read like Sliver, in that you completely missed wast I was saying. You can go back and re-read my post, but it isn't against tourists, it's against empty condos taking up limited space vs hotels that would allow more people to visit, and room for more people to live. Do I need a math equation for you? I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Canmore is boring large truck stop

Exactly. Growing up in Calgary makes me loathe "mountain vacations", which are as boring as a plate of piss. Give me a cactus or something interesting instead of big tall rocks and goats. If I never go to Banff or Canmore again it will be too soon.

I think we just like the smell of our own farts being Canadian and "cherish" our lame crap overly.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sliver's done a good job of conflating residents and magpie weekenders to try to prove his point. What's missing in his justifications that led to your post is that most people don't have a problem with more people moving to Canmore as residents. Those that come, raise a family, setup a business and participate in the community. It's never been about that, so no, it's not pulling up a ladder once they are in. Since Sliver also took a shot at me being a "new joiner", having been in Calgary since the late 90's. I moved her, got educated, found a job and career, you know, the sorts of things you do when you live in a community.

This position comes from seeing the reasons people came to the mountains vanish as condos that sit empty 80% of the time continue to get built over their favourite trails and wilderness areas. This very type of housing on limited lands ends up reducing the ability of others to move to Canmore and live there. The very thing Sliver rallies on about(elitism blocking anyone form accessing) is what his vacation property is preventing and making unattainable.

Locals have always wanted more full time residents, because they understand bussing in workers from Calgary to McDonalds makes a lot less sense than the community's youth taking their first jobs in the service industry. And parents to setup a contracting company so they don't need to have one come from Calgary or Cochrane. They need residents to run the events that bring people to the community. All the restaurants, sports and coffee shops etc? Not opened by non-residents. There will be fewer of these things that bring tourists in the first place.

And yes, they also increase taxes for residents because you still need to service these places, even if empty and not giving anything back tot he community. For instance, in the 90's Canmore built a new sewage treatment plant. I remember it being a very expensive bullet to eat at the time, but residents were convinced due to the smells. Well now Canmore needs another one because it now needs to handle the surge capacity of the weekenders too. Add in roads, water, snow clearing etc and it does add up to additional costs that wouldn't exist without the empty condos.

If you imagine a town without the condos and just residents, you then see there would be staffing available for more hotels and services for visitors, rooms that have people in them 90% of the time instead of 20%, giving far more people access to Canmore. Oh, and no golf courses taking up vast swaths of land for 4 people at a time to walk on.

Sliver presents a vision he's imprinted of Canmore on himself and what he thinks people want, without ever considering the reality of where his wants lead, and that many locals may actually have some valid points. Not that it matters at this point, the town is well on it's way to a soul-less condo valley.

Couple things - and this goes back to the toxic groupthink in Canmore that you're echoing:

Full-time residents don't get to own the definition of community and project it onto others. I don't care if you think the way I enjoy my property makes things soulless for you. I also don't care if condos now exist where your favourite hiking trails are.

I can use my condo and stay there as little or as much as I want, and I don't need or want you thinking about it. It's none of your business.

To catch some people up here in some background on the hostility you're seeing, Canmore is introducing a 'livability tax' in January 2026, which will raise taxes by 300% on second homeowners. These owners, like myself, make up 26% of Canmore's homeowners and we are not allowed to vote in the town's elections. So the municipal government of Canmore can add this enormous tax on us 'outsiders' and we cannot fight against it with our vote. It's created an all-out us-versus them war. It's crazy. Canadian vs Canadian. Albertan vs Albertan. We are - what is defined by the Town - now called a "sub class" of resident.

Anyway, back to Fuzz. You guys notice how he talks about "bUt In ThE 90s", right? This is how it goes in every discussion with somebody from Canmore. It boils down to it was better in the 90s lol. It's so dumb.

Sorry your hiking trails now have homes, Fuzz! Bouta blow your mind here, though...as a kid born in Calgary in 1976 - and I know this is going to sound crazy - there where places I'd like to go and things I'd like to do between then and now that I'm unable to because Calgary grew, too. There are whole subdivisions where my friends and I would off road in high school. Neighbourhoods where we used to mountain bike. I remember visiting horse paddocks in Varsity and in Brentwood in the 80s - guess what...literal strip malls now.

I'm sorry I can't freeze Canmore in time for you guys.

I'm sorry you pull up to Canmore and it feels 'big' and a bit foreign compared to the good ole days you can see in your mind's eye. It genuinely is a bit sad and I think something all of us can relate to pretty much regardless of where we grew up. All of us from Calgary can definitely relate to that. There is exactly one million more people in Calgary than the 700,000 people that were here when I started high school. That is an incredible amount of change, especially compared to Canmore.

With all those new people, though, and all the growth, change and problems that have come with them, I don't know a single Calgarian who has begrudged or wanted to target them with a punitive tax or expelled an ounce of energy to try to make them feel like an outsider. There just isn't that toxicity here that you guys have watered, nurtured and grown in Canmore.

Glad to hear "most" people don't have a "problem with more people moving to Canmore as residents". But guess what? No my problem if they do. And they should keep it to themselves, anyway, in the same way I don't monitor how often my neighbours spend at their homes in Calgary. One of my neighbours spends six months a year in Arizona (he's actually going to sell because of all the USA crap, but I'm talking over the last several years)...do I treat him like an outsider with some illogical and obviously false talking point about how he is somehow costing more in tax than me even though he's here half the time? Nope. I shovel his walk, keep an eye on his place, adjust the downspout when it came off during the spring thaw, etc. I'm still a good neighbour. Wouldn't dream of thinking of him as a sub-Calgarian.

They also like to talk about how we don't contribute to the community. Again, they're entitled a-holes. Literally every single board member on my condo board is a vacation home owner from outside Canmore. Three from other cities in Alberta and one lives in Quebec. You can imagine it's a little rich to hear how we're not community members around my house as my wife does a crap ton of work for the Board on evenings from Calgary. We do so much for our community in Canmore and these people sht on our right to be there.

Finally, guess who approves housing and new builds in Canmore? The Town Council. Guess who voted for Town Council? Recall, it isn't the 26% of vacation homeowners...we're disenfranchised. It's the townspeople like Fuzz's dad who then complain they don't like the way they've allowed and voted for the town to grow. Like...I'm lazy AF. I certainly didn't drive out to Canmore and petition them to build my condo back in 2006. I just bought a used condo and then realized half the town was apoplectic that I had the nerve to buy a little vacation property in my country, in my province, an hour from where I was born. Oh and they're not afraid to let you know how awful you are for ruining their town, believe me.

Fuzz says I'm squatting on land that could be used for a local, eh? But I bought it in the open market. I didn't know anybody in Canmore, so it's not like I used my Big City ways and connections to steal it out from under a Canmore local. And not to brag, but my place is waaaaay nicer than any place any waiter, hiking guide, bellhop, house cleaner or cook could afford in any city at any time. When I was young and all my friends were waitresses and had other service jobs, nobody lived in a place as nice. And the Town approved the building of my place. Only people - even when it was first built - with money external to the general Canmore economy ever would have been able to afford it. Blame town councils of past and blame the amazing community of 90s Canmore short-sighted dimbulbs who voted to make this town what it currently is.

There should be more affordable housing. Guess who approves housing developments, guy? Not me. I'm not even allowed to have a say. It's townspeople who live there full time and the people they elect. I'm expressly forbidden from voting on it. Blame who is responsible, please. You have to be able to see it isn't me, but it is your dad and his generation of Canmore people who are now living in the town they made. I just bought a place they approved and built back when I was changing my 19-year-old's diapers and Canmore was just a dream for us.

Finally, Canmore's business owners need to build staff accommodations. That's how you fix this. You could also tax AirBnBs, but they're exempt from this 300% tax increase. Um, what? I think banning those might free up some housing inventory there for ya Fuzz. But, no, Sliver buys a GD cabin - the culmination of 25 years of scrimping and saving - and of course it's in a town where everyone is an a-hole and they're all missing some chip in their brain (maybe Fuzz's beloved waste treatment plant isn't as good as he thought and it leached some mind virus into the soil) that allows them to see basic reality and extend basic human respect to their neighbours.

One other thing: I recall you like to travel. Japan, UK, Europe, etc., right? Okay, get this: my wife and I camped in our car and made a point of not vacationing overseas or on expensive trips for our entire marriage. Most of my friends do that stuff and most owned new cars. We always bought used (until our 40s, really, as we have become more comfortable). So, anyway, all that scrimping we did? We saved. Underbought our Calgary home, too, to save the difference. We've done a million little things that have all added up with one goal in mind: buying a place in the mountains. Achievement unlocked. I'm just saying I don't believe you when you say you wouldn't be able to have a place in Canmore. My first place there was the cheapest place in Canmore at $385k in 2020. Had you not done your little travelling and if you owned a smaller house in Calgary or one in a different neighbourhood, you, too, could have bought a little slice of Canmore as well. We didn't dumb our way into this place. We planned and saved for over two decades, and it is none of anyone's fkn business in Canmore how many nights a year I spend there. The town and its people need to fk right off from my bit-ness.

[SportsJunky]

Many in my social circle don't take advantage of the mountains. We want to but we don't. Once a year, if that. I don't get tired of the mountains because I hardly ever go. True Calgarian.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

You're kidding right? If you provided planning pernission to build a new town in the mountains with basically any set of conditions (x% affordable housing, a grocery store, whatever) there would be multiple bidders vying for the opportunity.

...

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Great, enjoy your new privately serviced residential enclave for the rich with enormous annual fees adjacent to a commercial centre with leasing rates only able to be met by niche businesses. Everyone else will continue to gravitate towards established functioning communities with public services that can’t be provided in a new builder/developer “town”.

[Fuzz]

I think there is a lot of irony in claiming Canmore residents are FYGM after a posts like that where you literally say "#### you, I came and got mine".


Anyway, you don't know my personal situation or what life has led me to the choices I've made that are right for me, but just trust me when I say it's not my vacation decisions that led me to not affording Canmore, and those decisions were made for reasons personal to me to make the best of ####ty hands, and it's all irrelevant to the discussion. And I'm not going to put you down for saving money to buy something that was available to you through hard work, that you wanted.


As for townspeople making ####ty voting decisions, welcome to discovering your fellow voters. In their defence, there were more than one councillor acting in their own interests, and not for the voters over the years. I know at least one who was booted for their betrayals after the damage was done, and I'm sure the number is more than one.