Thirtysomething to Thirtynothing

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by LouCypher

In contrast I see this as pointing to a trend in how people view the world and as more information has become readily available to a wider range of people humanity and the younger generations cant help but have to think about more than just themselves. Approaching 30 myself I see not so much as a particular generation being more out for themselves just more recognition of the fact that this type of lifestyle is evolving as the norm will have to be people taking a wider view of the world and how they can coexist within it before there isnt one left.

One of my favourite Newsweek covers, which I actually have a copy of somewhere, from 1971, young voters lining up to get involved, the cover wondering which way the huge Baby Boom demographic of The Protest Generation might vote. An amendment change, lowering the voter age to 18, had enfranchised 11 million new voters.



The people in this photograph are probably 55-60 years old today.

Frankly, you have more in common with the people in that photograph, now your grandfathers and grandmothers, than you might think . . . . . yet they are likely far more conservative than you are as they see their world today even as they might have agreed with you then.

That appears to be an evolution that doesn't change with generations.

Cowperson

[blankall]

I would say this study is right on the button. As someone moving into my late 20s I can tell you now a lot of this stuff is pretty acurate.

I had a lot of friends who just expected they would become famous/rich just by doing nothing. I saw a lot of people drop out of programs that wuold lead to a job so they would have more time to play guitar or snowboard. A lot of people even looked down upon me for wanting to go to law school.

It seems everyone is just into easy money. A ton of people think they should just have the right to be ballers. They should be able to spend their entire 20s going to clubs or travelling without having any balance. Teh worst is untalented people who tell me they are doing more for society by selfishly playing music all day. Yeah I'd like to do that instead of studying law in the library too but I decided to think ahead a little.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

The people in this photograph are probably 55-60 years old today.

Frankly, you have more in common with the people in that photograph, now your grandfathers and grandmothers, than you might think . . . . . yet they are likely far more conservative than you are as they see their world today even as they might have agreed with you then.

That appears to be an evolution that doesn't change with generations.

Cowperson

Hence the joke:

What do you call a 20 year old Liberal?


An Idealist


What do you call a 40 year Liberal?

An Idiot

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I wouldn't be surprised to find these characteristic changes to be similar across generations. Do you think the next generation will be harder working, have a lesser sense of entitlement, or be less narcissistic than this one?

The thing to put into perspective is that its presented as though the baby-boomers are the 'base line' for normal behaviour (or at least, 'base behaviour') from which 'new behaviour' is being measured. They were probably as equally independent, self-entitled, and narcissistic compared to their elders as we are compared to them.

I'm not one to say what the next generation will be like with any sort of solid confidence, but it's also clear to me that North American values and perspectives are not shared by all other cultures around the world. North America has a distinct culture of it's own, or at least a set of cultures that resemble each other and are distinct from other places in the world.

I would agree that taking the baby-boomers as a cultural base line is inappropriate from a perspective with a little more hindsight. On the other hand, I would also suggest that a North American timeline of behavioural change is hardly an adequate base line for 'normal' human behaviour. Certainly, there is a distinct culture here. The values and perspective of 'Generation Me' are not shared everywhere in the world. Whether or not they fit in with the longterm trend of value change in North America they are still interesting as evidence of the difference of our culture and it's development under conditions not entirely shared in other places.

I still think it's interesting, because it reflects an aspect of North American culture that, to me, seems very North American.

[The Yen Man]

I blame this generation's thinking on a couple main things:

1.) Reality TV. People watch stuff like American Idol, So You Think You Can Dance, Last Comic Standing, etc etc etc and they think, well, if normal Joe can do it, why can't they?


2.) The Internet, and even more specifically, sites like YouTube, where anyone who's creative enough can get their 15 seconds of fame.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I blame this generation's thinking on a couple main things:

1.) Reality TV. People watch stuff like American Idol, So You Think You Can Dance, Last Comic Standing, etc etc etc and they think, well, if normal Joe can do it, why can't they?


2.) The Internet, and even more specifically, sites like YouTube, where anyone who's creative enough can get their 15 seconds of fame.

The thing is these things were never really in the main stream until after this generation was 20 years old type of thing. Given what kids today have, vs. what I had growing up, than compare that to what my parents had.....the trend likely is only going to continue along this path and that 30 nothing today who used to be a 20 nothing will gradually become a 35 nothing to a 40 nothing. As North American families become better established and pass wealth down to the generatioins below them we could have people able to live their entire life doing nothing sort of thing becoming somewhat common.

[burn_baby_burn]

I definately see this in some of my cousins or family friends. In their early 30's or just turning 30 with no real work experience and no real education to land a decent job. Most of them have gone to school and received useless degree's and are now back at school giving some other pie-in-the-sky major a chance. All the while working dead end jobs (mostly as waitresess) and complaining about never having any money. All the while Mommy and Daddy seem to bail them out of financial problems on an annual basis.

But I don't think this is a new phenomina. Doesn't every family have the 50 something useless uncle who blames all his problems on everybody else?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The thing is these things were never really in the main stream until after this generation was 20 years old type of thing. Given what kids today have, vs. what I had growing up, than compare that to what my parents had.....the trend likely is only going to continue along this path and that 30 nothing today who used to be a 20 nothing will gradually become a 35 nothing to a 40 nothing. As North American families become better established and pass wealth down to the generatioins below them we could have people able to live their entire life doing nothing sort of thing becoming somewhat common.

I hope you are wrong. These stupid shows can't last forever, can they? People will eventually get tired of watching Average Joe making an Average Fool out of himself. I hope.

I find it kind of mind-buggering that so many people of a certain age believe it's possible to get rich and famous by going on a reality TV show.

There have been thousands, tens of thousands, of people on those reallity shows. I don't live in a cave, but I can only think of two people who's name I actually remember -- one of them because he went to the slammer for not paying taxes on the winnings. The other guy gained notoriety for being a dork. If this is what "youngsters" are hoping for out of life, we could be in for a bumpy ride.

[FireFly]

I think the issue is not that we've been told we deserve to have it all, it's that we weren't told we would have to work for it. We just expect it to fall into our laps, and when it doesn't, that's when we get anxious/depressed/whatever else. I mean, we can now look at people like Paris Hilton who did nothing and yet got famous for it, and ask why that didn't happen to us.

I'm 26 and I'm the same way. My life is nothing like I expected it to be and now I'm looking at a total shift in what I want to do with myself. I thought I'd be married with kids and a perfect life with the perfect job already and here I am, I've been single for the better part of two and half years with flings in between, working a dead-end job and hating it. Where is the life my parents told me I deserved? Well, I didn't work for it. I floated along with my job and finishing university expecting it to fall into my lap 'anytime now'.

That's not to say I don't have a work ethic, because I do. It's more to say that no-one taught me how to go after my future goals, rather I was taught how to do the job I already have.

[Dion]

When I was working for Safeway I saw too much of this attitude of teenagers and young adults expecting a paycheck and not realising they have to work for it. Part of it I think comes from the fact they were given most things they wanted - Paris Hilton being a perfect example. The sadly reality is they floundered in their job. Some realised quicky that a paycheck wasn't given to you without working for it. Others weren't so quick and were fired. It's a reality I don't see ending anytime soon.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Dion

When I was working for Safeway I saw too much of this attitude of teenagers and young adults expecting a paycheck and not realising they have to work for it. Part of it I think comes from the fact they were given most things they wanted - Paris Hilton being a perfect example. The sadly reality is they floundered in their job. Some realised quicky that a paycheck wasn't given to you without working for it. Others weren't so quick and were fired. It's a reality I don't see ending anytime soon.

Paris Hilton is a terrible example. She was born with (hundreds of?) millions of dollars. You can't watch The Simple Life and say 'yep, today's youngsters sure are entitled!'...

I think there are some massive generalizations being made in this thread about a whole age bracket of people.... I know a lot of extremely hard working young people who have worked from 14 - 26 (my age)... none of us ever thought life was going to be delivered, and our parents (and schools, and society imo) didn't either.

[CaramonLS]

Article hits kind of close to home. And Firefly's/others testimony of her success with her BA doesn't exactly make me too enthusiatic for the future for myself when I graduate in 4 weeks.

Definately not where I pictured myself at 25 - but I also really haven't had asperations of being famous/rich - which is pretty disturbing to hear figures so amazingly high.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Paris Hilton is a terrible example. She was born with (hundreds of?) millions of dollars. You can't watch The Simple Life and say 'yep, today's youngsters sure are entitled!'...

I think there are some massive generalizations being made in this thread about a whole age bracket of people.... I know a lot of extremely hard working young people who have worked from 14 - 26 (my age)... none of us ever thought life was going to be delivered, and our parents (and schools, and society imo) didn't either.

Paris Hilton may be a terrible example of the typical young person with the world delivered to her on a platter, but she's certainly become an excellent example of a typical icon for many young people today.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The thing is these things were never really in the main stream until after this generation was 20 years old type of thing. Given what kids today have, vs. what I had growing up, than compare that to what my parents had.....the trend likely is only going to continue along this path and that 30 nothing today who used to be a 20 nothing will gradually become a 35 nothing to a 40 nothing. As North American families become better established and pass wealth down to the generatioins below them we could have people able to live their entire life doing nothing sort of thing becoming somewhat common.

As the saying goes:

The first generation makes the family fortune.
The second generation maintains it.
The third generation squanders it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Paris Hilton may be a terrible example of the typical young person with the world delivered to her on a platter, but she's certainly become an excellent example of a typical icon for many young people today.

She may be an icon in a way, but only the truly stupid would actually look up to someone like that. If a young woman has picked Paris Hilton as a role model, she probably wasn't going to amount to much either way.

No offense of course to anyone out there of course.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Paris Hilton is a terrible example. She was born with (hundreds of?) millions of dollars. You can't watch The Simple Life and say 'yep, today's youngsters sure are entitled!'...

What about the rich/upper class families in this city that can afford to spoil their kids rotten? Go buy a HS parking lot and look at the vehicles some teens are driving today.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about the rich/upper class families in this city that can afford to spoil their kids rotten? Go buy a HS parking lot and look at the vehicles some teens are driving today.

There have always been kids with fancy cars in high school. There were when I was in school, when my mom was in school, some kids had real beaut wagons when my grandma was in school.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by worth

have people really changed that much over the past while? maybe these people are more self confident, but i don't think much has changed. I mean, it seems as though we're believeing that everything was hunky dory before hand, and now all of a sudden people are only interested in themselves.

I think it's pretty much been that way throughout human history. The only thing that has changed is the perception of success or wealth. land and control to money and cars. Maybe previously people wanted wealth but knew they couldn't attain it. Now, most people have a chance at becoming wealthy, even if it is by winning the lottery.

I disagree with this statement and I will explain from my perspective why. First of all, I will clarify that I am in the older age group they are talking about, not the 20 to 35 age group. I personally believe the prospect of doing well in your career choice was much higher when I was graduating than it is now. Perhaps times are changing as once again, there is a dire need of trained people, no matter if in the trades or if in certain professions. But when I graduated, I could pretty well have the pick of any job.

Let me tell you how I got my first teaching job. I had recently graduated, was engaged, and my future spouse would still have to finish his university. So my Dad figured one of us should be working and earning some money, and by the process of elimination, that meant me. At that time, I was living close to Regina, but after marriage, I would be living in Saskatoon.

So one day, when my Dad was not too busy, he figured we should just drive up to Saskatoon, and drop in at the School Board and talk to some people. And that is exactly what we did. Never sent out resumes ahead of time, never arranged for an interview appointment, just drove off to Saskatoon. Well, we found the School Board, somehow got an interview very easily, AND I walked out of there with a teaching job.

When my husband graduated two years later, he was wined and dined by various oil and gas companies, as was the case with most people who were Geology majors at the time. Well, he had 7 job offers and basically chose the one with the most money.

And that is how it was for us and most of our friends. Almost too easy, but that was how the times were.

Now, on the other hand, my children's generation, that would be the 25 to 35 age group, they certainly dont have the same experiences as my husband or I. Quite the opposite in fact for a lot of them even though well educated for the most part. Times have changed.

And I believe, because of that type of experience, many have become depressed and disillusioned with perhaps not the best hopes for the future. AND I believe this generation, the ME generation, will be the first generation that will not do better than their parents nor earn more money than their parents.

And I think that for many, once they have realized that, they come to the conclusion that they should live for now. Certainly try and have some plans for the future, but live now. Now I dont necessarily fault that, I think many of my generation were perhaps a bit too serious about things. Not always of our own doing as most of us in this generation had grandparents who had lived through the Depression. And almost every one of them worked their knuckles to the bone to get any little thing they had. And you get influenced by that, in seeing their work ethic and hearing them talk about how hard it was. I also think that so many of my generation had so many hopes for their children and because of that, perhaps put too much pressure on their children to do well.... that in itself can lead to depression as well.

Now of course, there are always those who are extreme in how they live their lives and I really think it is that segment today who are responsible for the ME generation label. I am talking about those who always seem to be living their life on the edge. And for many on the outside, looking in on them as they live their lives that way, it seems as if they are selfish, all about me.

I have met many young people, from all over the world, and most of the time, I am left with great hopes for our future. Times might have changed, attitudes might have changed, but for the most part, young people are still good. I dont fear the future with them in charge.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by redforever

I disagree with this statement and I will explain from my perspective why. First of all, I will clarify that I am in the older age group they are talking about, not the 20 to 35 age group. I personally believe the prospect of doing well in your career choice was much higher when I was graduating than it is now. Perhaps times are changing as once again, there is a dire need of trained people, no matter if in the trades or if in certain professions. But when I graduated, I could pretty well have the pick of any job.

Let me tell you how I got my first teaching job. I had recently graduated, was engaged, and my future spouse would still have to finish his university. So my Dad figured one of us should be working and earning some money, and by the choice of elimination, that meant me. At that time, I was living close to Regina, but after marriage, I would be living in Saskatoon.

So one day, when my Dad was not too busy, he figured we should just drive up to Saskatoon, and drop in at the School Board and talk to some people. And that is exactly what we did. Never sent out resumes ahead of time, never arranged for an interview appointment, just drove off to Saskatoon. Well, we found the School Board, somehow got an interview very easily, AND I walked out of there with a teaching job.

When my husband graduated two years later, he was wined and dined by various oil and gas companies, as was the case with most people who were Geology majors at the time. Well, he had 7 job offers and basically chose the one with the most money.

And that is how it was for us and most of our friends. Almost too easy, but that was how the times were.

Now, on the other hand, my children's generation, that would be the 25 to 35 age group, they certainly dont have the same experiences as my husband or I did. Quite the opposite in fact for a lot of them even though well educated for the most part. Times have changed.

And I believe, because of that type of experience, many have become depressed and disillusioned with perhaps not the best hopes for the future. AND because of that, I believe this generation, the ME generation, will be the first generation that will not do better than their parents nor earn more than their parents.

And I think that for many, once they have realized that, they come to the conclusion that they should live for now. Certainly try and have some plans for the future, but live now. Now I dont necessarily fault that, I think many of my generation were perhaps a bit too serious about things. Not always of their own doing as most of us in this generation had grandparents who had lived through the Depression. And almost every one of them worked their knuckles to the bone to get any little thing they had. And you get influenced by that, in seeing their work ethic and hearing them talk about how hard it was. I also think that so many of my generation had so many hopes for their children and because of that, perhaps put too much pressure on their children to do well.... that in itself can lead to depression as well.

Now of course, there are always those who are extreme in how they live their lives and I really think it is that segment today who are responsible for the ME generation label. I am talking about those who always seem to be living their life on the edge. And for many on the outside, looking in on them as they live their lives that way, it seems as if they are selfish, all about me.

I have met many young people, from all over the world, and most of the times, I am left with great hopes for our future. Times might have changed, attitudes might have changed, but for the most part, young people are still good. I dont fear the future with them in charge.

###. I think this is a valid point too, and I may have been a little harsh before. Especially the part about how hard it is to get a job. Basically, an undergraduate degree is useless these days. I learnt this the hard way. Also, very few people are able to get jobs taht provide the salaries that would allow them to settle down until their early 30s.

I think a lot of this has to do with the classism in our society today. People are taught that an education some how makes you a better person than a tradesman and the influx of university students has lowered standards to get in. I think it's turned university from a training program into more of personal endeavor. There are too many graduates and not enough jobs. This combined with natural demographics that have meant baby boomers are holding onto their jobs longer doesnt really leave a lot of opportunity for people.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

There have always been kids with fancy cars in high school. There were when I was in school, when my mom was in school, some kids had real beaut wagons when my grandma was in school.

Of course, but not in the numbers i'm seeing today.