2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I wouldn’t be surprised if they have data that shows this team wouldn’t survive a long term rebuild. Maybe we aren’t giving the owners enough credit for why they refuse to ever do one. Starting to think there’s more to it than just being stubborn. Flames fandom compared to the Oilers is very minimal sadly.

Then Calgary doesn’t deserve a team. The asset value of the Flames has continued to increase and Edwards got a sweetheart deal on the arena. I think the financial impact of the rebuild is overblown and it is simpler to believe that Edwards is hands on like he is at CNRL.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Funkhouser

How about some speculation surrounding Dallas. They are facing a major cap crunch with Rantanen, Oerringer and Johnson's raises next year. They have about $5M to re-sign Duchene, Benn and Granlund. Word is that they (a) need to offload cap this summer, and make space for extensions for Robertson and Harley next summer.

-Dallas needs some cap relief. Matt Dumba ($3.75M) has one year left and could fit on our back end.
-They need some championship pedigree to push them to the next level (Coleman).

DAL gets:
-$3.75 cap relief (Dumba)
-Coleman (2 seasons, 50% retained at $2.45M)
-Sam Morton (cheap 4th line C, replaces Bourque short term)
-Soloyov, Kuznetsov or Poirier (cheap D man who has aged out of our system but could find a home on their bottom pair to replace Dumba)

CGY gets:
-Dumba
-Bourque
-unprotected 2027 1st
-Angus MacDonell

I'm still not convinced Bourque will be anything but a bottom-six centre, but this allows us to get another first, and build depth up the middle.


Thoughts?

It’s definitely not bad. That’s what I’d be looking into as well. And Dumba can be flipped at the deadline. Have Weegar play LD with Dumba as his partner. He makes every player play better.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is it luck when they did it again with Stankoven
And Hintz
And Harley

At what point it isn’t luck but that maybe they are actually good at finding players?

So what have the Flames done to improve their ability to find players? Not being snarky, genuinely curious if they’ve invested more in scouting, etc.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am okay with the Flames picking high and sending out vets but I also am not saying we must dump Kadri or other vets in a race to the bottom.

If they make deals like the Markstrom trade or send out pending UFA’s for futures then absolutely. The Kadri nonsense yesterday was over the top.

While the Flames had a fun season picking 31-32 instead of 16 stings but that is Trelviing’s fault. I am not going to massively overreact to something until it happens. By all accounts the team is trading Andersson this summer. Outside of one report from a no name writer that suggests the Flames are big game hunting we have no other reason to suspect the Flames are deviating from the plan Conroy has laid out. Get younger and make more draft picks.

I'm not sure how wanting to trade Kadri is over the top. His value will NEVER be higher than right now. Every year his value will go down with him aging. In a few years you would probably need to add picks to trade him away.

Players who play his style also decline and drop very fast once they start going downhill. Look at Mike Richard's, he was a very good player and suddenly he turned 35 and he went from 1st liner to 3rd/4th line depth player very fast.

If you are being offered a 1st plus for a player who isn't going to be here by the time we are competitive, at the very least you have to ask him if he would move. If he says no that is fine, but you have to at least consider trading away your declining and aging assets while they still have value.

[CliffFletcher]

I’ve never bought the argument that the Flames fanbase would be less willing to undergo a rebuild than other markets. Do Anaheim and San Jose have more loyal fanbases than Calgary?

[Bingo]

had a busy few days ... saw I was 5 full pages behind on the rumour topics ... got excited

Had to scroll through 4 pages of Kadri talk

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Haven’t we seen a recent poll that showed more than 50% of flames fans supported a rebuild? I think there’s no more or less appetite for it in this market than others.

Why are the Flames not ‘Alberta’s team’? Perhaps because the Flames way of doing business and running a team has historically produced the 2nd most entertaining option in Alberta.

The Flames were the more entertaining option for over a decade in very recent history.

Why aren’t they Alberta’s team? Because fandom is passed down, you’re more likely to be a fan of a team your parents were fans of. And while the Flames were at their cup-winning best, the Oilers were a dynasty with the most popular hockey player to ever play the game.

The Leafs havent made the Stanley Cup finals for nearly 50 years and are still and have always been more popular than the Oilers and every other Canadian team that has in that time frame. Wonder why?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The Flames were the more entertaining option for over a decade in very recent history.

Why aren’t they Alberta’s team? Because fandom is passed down, you’re more likely to be a fan of a team your parents were fans of. And while the Flames were at their cup-winning best, the Oilers were a dynasty with the most popular hockey player to ever play the game.

The Leafs havent made the Stanley Cup finals for nearly 50 years and are still and have always been more popular than the Oilers and every other Canadian team that has in that time frame. Wonder why?

And Oilers have more rabid and focused fans because, let's face it, what else do they have?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I'm not sure how wanting to trade Kadri is over the top. His value will NEVER be higher than right now. Every year his value will go down with him aging. In a few years you would probably need to add picks to trade him away.

Players who play his style also decline and drop very fast once they start going downhill. Look at Mike Richard's, he was a very good player and suddenly he turned 35 and he went from 1st liner to 3rd/4th line depth player very fast.

If you are being offered a 1st plus for a player who isn't going to be here by the time we are competitive, at the very least you have to ask him if he would move. If he says no that is fine, but you have to at least consider trading away your declining and aging assets while they still have value.

That’s fine and all but you actually have no idea if a conversation took place. If it did and Kadri said no then that’s going to be held pretty tightly.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I agree with losing a lot of those guys for nothing, but let me play devils advocate here.

How do you expect to build a winning culture, an identity and a team that can compete for a cup when you basically show all UFA’s that if you commit here but ultimately are “old” and even though we gave you a NMC to come here because you want stability for your family that we will ultimately tell/ask you to move anyway and disrespect your contract essentially?

You won’t. Plain and simple.
You’ll never attract a big name UFA to the market, you’ll jeopardize your ability to sign your prospects and ultimately destroy your room and team culture simply for a lottery ball and a B prospect?

Doesn’t make sense to me, but I do understand the angst having lost a lot of our guys for nothing, but those weren’t Craig’s decisions for the most part. He made best of what he could for Tkachuk and that was getting Huberdeau off of a record breaking season…

The "tank" people have only their logic and can't see anything else. It's like this in every sport. There is a subset of the fan base that thinks the team should be "tanking" in their specific scorched earth style and no other option is up for discussion.

It's the same way that all teams have that subset that needs to "fire the coach/manager" for reasons that they almost can never explain.

[Royle9]

I understand wanting to pick high, I really do.
But the tank group seems to think in order to do so we have to get rid of every veteran and then some even think we need to get rid of Wolf... just to TANK.

Can it not be a bit of both? It doesn't need to be a complete bare bones sell everything, in fact no team ever really does that to start a season. We need a balance, we need to have an identity and understand when our window will be and Craig has that. He's said multiple times that they project to have a GOOD team by the time the new arena opens and that's their long term vision.

For now they stay competitive and try and promote from within.
Of course he's said they'll want to watch for young guys who fit the window via trade and then any big star UFA that may make sense *Cough Makar* cough.

I think he's stuck to the plan he's been very transparent about.
But somehow its just not good enough (or bad enough in this case) but NO team ever just sheds every player over 25 and fills their roster with prospects and young guys.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is it luck when they did it again with Stankoven
And Hintz
And Harley

At what point it isn’t luck but that maybe they are actually good at finding players?

Bischel and Johnston look good too. It ain’t want some want to hear but there are players beyond the first 5 players drafted in the NHL draft that are good players.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bingo

had a busy few days ... saw I was 5 full pages behind on the rumour topics ... got excited

Had to scroll through 4 pages of Kadri talk

Have avoided this thread since the trade deadline. Came to the last page with intention to click back the last half dozen pages and see if there was anything happening out there this week along with the Kreider rumours. Saw your post. Posting this and closing thread. Thanks for the hour saved!

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand wanting to pick high, I really do.
But the tank group seems to think in order to do so we have to get rid of every veteran and then some even think we need to get rid of Wolf... just to TANK.

Can it not be a bit of both? It doesn't need to be a complete bare bones sell everything, in fact no team ever really does that to start a season. We need a balance, we need to have an identity and understand when our window will be and Craig has that. He's said multiple times that they project to have a GOOD team by the time the new arena opens and that's their long term vision.

For now they stay competitive and try and promote from within.
Of course he's said they'll want to watch for young guys who fit the window via trade and then any big star UFA that may make sense *Cough Makar* cough.

I think he's stuck to the plan he's been very transparent about.
But somehow its just not good enough (or bad enough in this case) but NO team ever just sheds every player over 25 and fills their roster with prospects and young guys.

The tank crowd has the wrong approach. The Flames should trade every player who played 5 games or more for the Flames team under the age of 26 last year for draft picks. That would make the team truly bad for at least 6-7 years and allow us to really draft high.

This groundbreaking strategy would have Craig trading - Honzek, Coronato, Zary, Keirns, Klapka, Wolf, Pospisil, Farabee, Bahl, Frost, Solovyov, Pachal.

Only get picks for all those guys. Replace them with cap dumps who also come with picks to take on their salaries. Sign some UFA’s and tell them Calgary is the Cleveland Indians of Major League but for hockey and suck.

If the Flames got rid of all that young talent they would compete for a top 3 pick well into the 2030’s and we would really have something to be proud of. This trading vets is really playing at the margins of tanking. If you are going to do it really do it.

[Muta]

All armchair GM's here on CP or literally anywhere like to manage the team like in a video game. Get young, get rid of all veterans, save money, profit.

In reality, there are all kinds of factors that go into player personnel decisions, and Royle9 is hitting the nail on the head here, bang on. Reputation, leadership, farm and prospect availability (and non-availability), personal issues and reasons, cap considerations, ownership preferences, integrity of management and decision-making, etc... these are all things that aren't prevalent in a video game and that many people do not immediately think about within these types of discussions.

I'm totally fine with Kadri playing out his days here. If it keeps the rest of the team happy and makes a statement to the league that Calgary values UFA's that sign here, that's fine with me. Sometimes you have to see the forest through the trees with these decisions; real life is a different ball game.

[SuperMatt18]

The biggest thing is that drafting high does help you build a winner, there is no denying that, but it also doesn't guarantee anything.

It's also possible to build a winner without drafting high, it's just harder to do and requires more shrewd management and better late round drafting.

What always gets overlooked when people point and say "Look at all the cup winners and all the top 5 picks they had", is that outside of a handful of teams, everyone had top 5 picks.

Since the lockout only 6 teams haven't had multiple top 5 picks: Vegas, Calgary, Minnesota, Nashville, Detroit, and Dallas.

Since the Lockout teams that drafted top 5 Multiple Times and won with those top picks on the roster playing a meaningful role (9 teams - 15 cups)

Carolina (3x top 5 picks), Pittsburgh x3 (5x), Chicago x3 (3x), LA x2 (3x), Washington (3x), Colorado (3x), Tampa Bay x2 (3x), Florida (3x), St Louis (2x)

Teams that didn't have an impactful top 5 pick on the roster (that they selected) and won the cup. (4 teams - 4 cups)

Vegas, Detroit, Boston (2x - but Kessel was traded for Seguin, Seguin only played 13 games in the playoffs), Anaheim (4x but none were on the roster when they won)

Teams that had multiple top 5 picks and have failed to win with those picks on their roster (yet) :

Buffalo (4x) , Columbus (6x) , New York Rangers (2x) , New York Islanders (5x), Arizona/Utah (5x), Montreal (6x), Toronto (4x), Philadelphia (3x), Atlanta/Winnipeg (3x), Edmonton (6x), New Jersey (5x), Ottawa (2x), Vancouver (2x), San Jose (2x but too early to tell for them)

Teams that had 1 or less top 5 pick and failed to win: Calgary (1x), Minnesota (1x), Nashville (1x), Dallas (1x)

So that is the crux of the issues - teams that picked top 5 a lot did win a lot of cups and it will be 16 of the last 20 Stanley Cups depending on who wins this year. (Hopefully still just 9 teams)

But also ignores that 10+ teams tanked and try to tear it down...and got nowhere.

I still think in the long run it's good management across drafting, free agency, and trades that win you the cup. Getting those core pieces with early picks helps, but if you just try to rely on drafting those high picks you aren't going to succeed.

For the Flames specifically the issue seems to be that they actually draft a bit too well before getting into the "rebuild" state which prevents them from getting a couple top 5 picks. Back in 14-15 it was Gaudreau, and this time around it's Wolf. So you have to be more creative and even more aggressive in terms of how you build a roster.

They do need to be a bit more shrewd in their asset management, and moving Markstrom and Mangiapane was a good step in terms of moving veterans earlier in their contracts. Even with players like Lindholm, and Hanifin I still think they should have been more pro-active and tried to shop some of them at the prior trade deadline instead of waiting until their UFA seasons. You have to be respectful of guys like Coleman and Kadri and respect their NMC/NTCs but they shouldn't be afraid to try to move them if an opportunity arises that those players would be open to, that still provides more long term value for the Flames.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand wanting to pick high, I really do.
But the tank group seems to think in order to do so we have to get rid of every veteran and then some even think we need to get rid of Wolf... just to TANK.

Can it not be a bit of both? It doesn't need to be a complete bare bones sell everything, in fact no team ever really does that to start a season. We need a balance, we need to have an identity and understand when our window will be and Craig has that. He's said multiple times that they project to have a GOOD team by the time the new arena opens and that's their long term vision.

For now they stay competitive and try and promote from within.
Of course he's said they'll want to watch for young guys who fit the window via trade and then any big star UFA that may make sense *Cough Makar* cough.

I think he's stuck to the plan he's been very transparent about.
But somehow its just not good enough (or bad enough in this case) but NO team ever just sheds every player over 25 and fills their roster with prospects and young guys.

While, I have always thought the Flames were never going to re-build, It is a quick "re-tool". That's the Flames plan.

Having the core of aging players (Kadar, Huberdeau, Backlund, Coleman, Andersson, Weegar, etc) are likely to keep the Flames in the wild card race,

Key question is how do they take the next step? Getting them as a playoff contender year in and year out?

Flames likely have 1 blue chip prospect in their system currently,

Makar thing, in my opinion, will never happen.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is it luck when they did it again with Stankoven
And Hintz
And Harley

At what point it isn’t luck but that maybe they are actually good at finding players?

They deserve a lot of credit for sure, getting both Johnston, and Stankoven in 2021 was pretty great too. Here I'm hoping that their other 2nd rounder in Grushnikov that year plays out just as well.

I think Dallas has a very good development program. Moreover, the current make up of their roster seems to make it easier for prospects to be put in roles in which they can succeed and improve quickly.

Having Pavelski, Seguin, Benn, and Duchene as former stars must have been pretty helpful in the development of the likes of Hintz, Stankoven and Robertson. Heiskanen and Lindell were probably great for Harley's development as well.

That's where I can relate and give credit to Kadri's role in the development of Pospisil and Zary. Backlund and Coleman's role in the development of Coronato, and Andersson's and Weegar's role in the development of Bahl. So hopefully our management group walks the fine line between liquidating vets before their play falls off a ledge, and having a quality development environment at the NHL level. That's one of the reasons I loved Jagr coming here for half a season and love having Iggy spend more and more time around the team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand wanting to pick high, I really do.
But the tank group seems to think in order to do so we have to get rid of every veteran and then some even think we need to get rid of Wolf... just to TANK.

Can it not be a bit of both? It doesn't need to be a complete bare bones sell everything, in fact no team ever really does that to start a season. We need a balance, we need to have an identity and understand when our window will be and Craig has that. He's said multiple times that they project to have a GOOD team by the time the new arena opens and that's their long term vision.

For now they stay competitive and try and promote from within.
Of course he's said they'll want to watch for young guys who fit the window via trade and then any big star UFA that may make sense *Cough Makar* cough.

I think he's stuck to the plan he's been very transparent about.
But somehow its just not good enough (or bad enough in this case) but NO team ever just sheds every player over 25 and fills their roster with prospects and young guys.

I'd add to that that I think he is likely a little (or a lot) surprised that the team he iced for 24/25 was as good as it ended up being.

I think they built the team for a bottom ten finish and it just didn't happen.

If they had a goal of make the playoffs he would have kept Markstrom to work with Wolf, and not left $20M in cap space unutilized.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand wanting to pick high, I really do.
But the tank group seems to think in order to do so we have to get rid of every veteran and then some even think we need to get rid of Wolf... just to TANK.

Can it not be a bit of both? It doesn't need to be a complete bare bones sell everything, in fact no team ever really does that to start a season. We need a balance, we need to have an identity and understand when our window will be and Craig has that. He's said multiple times that they project to have a GOOD team by the time the new arena opens and that's their long term vision.

For now they stay competitive and try and promote from within.
Of course he's said they'll want to watch for young guys who fit the window via trade and then any big star UFA that may make sense *Cough Makar* cough.

I think he's stuck to the plan he's been very transparent about.
But somehow its just not good enough (or bad enough in this case) but NO team ever just sheds every player over 25 and fills their roster with prospects and young guys.

I think that was kind of the plan this past season. Nearly everyone and their dog expected the Flames on paper to be a bottom lottery team or at the very least, bottom ten. I believe that they intended to be deadline sellers, hence why Mantha was signed. Dustin Wolf changed everything. They have an elite goalie in his prime now.

My position has always been to pick a lane and commit to it one way or another and this team at the moment needs to figure out how to get the rest of the horses to move out of the mushy middle. I could support either an aggressive retooling or bottoming out for a top draft pick, but I don't think "just be Dallas" is a plan. Every team, even teams with high lottery picks, are trying to "be Dallas" in the sense that they all also want to hit big on draft picks outside of the lottery range. It's not like every other team is thinking, hey why didn't we think of doing that. Waiting to see if the Flames can be that over the next 5 years doesn't seem like a solid strategy given the low probability that it can succeed.

The Flames also have the disadvantage of being on a lot of NMCs and currently not being a top destination for free agents which makes an aggressive retool harder.