SCF: Florida Panthers (A3) vs Edmonton Oilers (P3) - PANTHERS WIIIIN 4-2!!!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Beninho

The team with the 11th best odds won the lottery this year, most drafts don’t have a generational player, getting one is pure luck and it is dumb to try and plan for. It was not even a tactic by the Oilers, they just stunk and it was not on purpose…

Read the post I quoted. The tactic I was commenting on is sitting out star players leading up to the playoffs.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There’s no aversion to it, people are just rejecting the fantasy/dreamlike picture that is being painted about it.

I mean, if someone said the lottery and gambling can make you rich, that’s true, of course. You can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket, and you can’t win big at the table if you don’t put down the $100. But that’s different than framing it as, say, “If you play the lottery you’ll be rich” or “I play the lottery because it’s going to make me rich.” The reality is there’s a lot of risk and the odds aren’t great, but if it’s other people’s money you’d probably say the same thing.

The reality of “bottoming out properly” includes a few things:
- it’s difficult to do (you can’t always do all the things you need to do to make it happen, and sometimes just doing all the things you CAN do isn’t enough)
- the rules no longer allow teams to benefit from it the same way the teams who have had success doing it did
- watching/following a basement dwelling team is almost exclusively miserable
- you’re unlikely to get one of the following: the quality of players you need to overcome any other issues and if you don’t get them, the mix required to make it work anyway

Like it’s fine to bring up the Oilers and say “Oh we should do that and anyone who doesn’t want to do that has an aversion to winning a Stanley Cup!” but if you don’t acknowledge that they’re been at it for 15 years and don’t yet have a cup (maybe they get one in year 15!) and have been a miserable-to-watch laughing stock for at least a decade of those 15 years, then yeah, it’s going to seem like people just don’t want a Stanley Cup, I guess?

The fact is that with Parekh, Wolf, and Coronato, the Flames have 3 of the 4 kinds of young players teams “bottom out properly” for. We’re missing one. And we didn’t “bottom out properly”. Can we find the one without doing it? We might have to. So no sense in sugar coating something that is unlikely to happen anyway.

Every team has a Coronato. I like him, but not a piece that is all that difficult to acquire or develop in any competitive team's ascension.

As for Wolf, I think it's a luxury for a team to have an elite goaltender these days, not a necessity to a Cup winning formula.

So then you have Parekh, who looks to be the real deal and is absolutely a piece, but as I've previously suggested...could very well be our version of Bouchard (that's a great outcome, by the way).

I don't know about you, but a couple of top 6 wingers, potential top D, and a goaltender isn't near enough for me to confidently say it's time to build up vs fall down.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Read the post I quoted. The tactic I was commenting on is sitting out star players leading up to the playoffs.

My bad, got confused lol

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Every team has a Coronato. I like him, but not a piece that is all that difficult to acquire or develop in any competitive team's ascension.

Yeah, the fact Coronato is being included as a key player going forward tells you all you need to know about the likely trajectory of the team. Coronato is a nice piece. But if he’s one of the top 3 forwards on your roster, you’re not an elite team.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Too much flames talk. This is the oilers quest for the Stanley Cup thread.

[traptor]

I think Coronatos ceiling is a bit higher then some of you are implying, but I do agree that banking on him as one or our top couple Forwards is probably not a winning recipe.

Reminds me of the Leafs with Kessel or Habs with Pacioretty.
Great players. But not enough and if they're your top players, your not a serious threat.

[Manhattanboy]

To think that if the NHL had the SAME RULES for regular season games as for playoff games it’s doubtful the Oilers would have even made the playoffs.

3-3 overtime is a dumb gimmicky way to decide games and the shootout is even worse.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

2019. And no, it’s not the type of thinking that keeps them in the mushy middle, it’s reality: the Flames were more fun to watch than the Sharks this year. That doesn’t mean the future is brighter for the Flames, but anyone living in some dream world that thinks the hope that it might turn around one day palatable while you’re paying money to watch your team get dominated night in and night out is probably needs a bit of a reality check. I grew up with Sharks fans and still know plenty, and the sentiment down there isn’t overly positive, and fans aren’t having much fun.

I don’t mind people advocating for a decade of misery on the hope it turns into 3-5 years of joy. But let’s not sugar coat it and pretend it’s anything but misery and that the people who are miserable now would be just as or even more miserable then. It sucks. Is it worth it? It can be. But it sucks. Even with a 1st overall pick.

The Sharks who were a perennial playoff contender that should have won at least 1 cup and who are now 5 years into a rebuild where they are brimming with talent are complaining ? Wow. Spoiled. Id be happy to have that on the Flames resume.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Psytic

The Sharks who were a perennial playoff contender that should have won at least 1 cup and who are now 5 years into a rebuild where they are brimming with talent are complaining ? Wow. Spoiled. Id be happy to have that on the Flames resume.

Not complaining. Just not having fun which I wouldn't either.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, the fact Coronato is being included as a key player going forward tells you all you need to know about the likely trajectory of the team. Coronato is a nice piece. But if he’s one of the top 3 forwards on your roster, you’re not an elite team.

Coronato is a fine 2nd liner. He isn't going to be an elite player who wins you a cup.

The closest thing we have with potential is Parekh. Who has played 1 NHL game. I hope he becomes elite but even if he is, you also need an elite center. And the only way to get that is by tanking or being Vegas.

[Rhett44]

Sharks are going to be really freaking good in a few years. I'd trade our entire roster for a Celebrini level centre.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, the fact Coronato is being included as a key player going forward tells you all you need to know about the likely trajectory of the team. Coronato is a nice piece. But if he’s one of the top 3 forwards on your roster, you’re not an elite team.

It doesn't tell you anything about the trajectory of the team. Just because they want to hold on to him does not mean that they think he will be one of their 3 best forwards, once they are competitive. They are holding on to him because they don't have many talented young players yet. The idea is to continue to acquire more, not sit on the ones they have and hope they are good enough.

It amazes me how fans spin literally everything into a negative with this team.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

To think that if the NHL had the SAME RULES for regular season games as for playoff games it’s doubtful the Oilers would have even made the playoffs.

3-3 overtime is a dumb gimmicky way to decide games and the shootout is even worse.

He says without knowing the oilers are undefeated in OT in the playoffs this year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Every team has a Coronato. I like him, but not a piece that is all that difficult to acquire or develop in any competitive team's ascension.

As for Wolf, I think it's a luxury for a team to have an elite goaltender these days, not a necessity to a Cup winning formula.

So then you have Parekh, who looks to be the real deal and is absolutely a piece, but as I've previously suggested...could very well be our version of Bouchard (that's a great outcome, by the way).

I don't know about you, but a couple of top 6 wingers, potential top D, and a goaltender isn't near enough for me to confidently say it's time to build up vs fall down.

I’m not saying it’s time to build up, you’re missing the whole point about what “reality” looks like.

Reality in bottoming out “properly” isn’t an elite player at every position. It’s, at best, maybe 2 elite players at different positions, a star, and top 6/top 4 guy. At best. That’s what teams bottom out for, not the fantasy of drafting your entire next crop of hall of famers. They bottom out knowing that’s best case scenario.

Wolf and Parekh, those are elite or projecting that way guys. The kind of talent you’re looking for in the top 5. Coronato? Great pick, maybe first line or top six. What you want in the top 5? Not necessarily, but put him up against guys like Dach, Kakko, Puljajarvi, Patrick, Turcotte, etc. If he was picked top 5, he’s a lower/middle of the pack pick. Not nearly the worst. That should tell you something.

The reality is that if the Flames pick top five three years in a row, the chances of them coming out with Parekh/Wolf/Coronato talent equivalents is way, way higher than the dream of coming out with three generational superstars or whatever the best case would be. Wayyy higher. So it’s nice to dream a little dream, but sometimes a reality check is OK.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Psytic

The Sharks who were a perennial playoff contender that should have won at least 1 cup and who are now 5 years into a rebuild where they are brimming with talent are complaining ? Wow. Spoiled. Id be happy to have that on the Flames resume.

As mentioned, not having any fun.

If being a contender once upon a time should make getting blown out 8-0 more fun then surely you can have fun watching the Flames battle for a playoff spot by remembering their cup win.

[dino7c]

Did the Sharks sign Toffoli because they thought he would make them worse in a shrewd move to finish last again?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Icon

And Joe Iginla probably mid 1st round if we're feeling nostalgic.

He has had a super disappointing D-1 season.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by traptor

I think Coronatos ceiling is a bit higher then some of you are implying, but I do agree that banking on him as one or our top couple Forwards is probably not a winning recipe.

Reminds me of the Leafs with Kessel or Habs with Pacioretty.
Great players. But not enough and if they're your top players, your not a serious threat.

It's like people think that a kid who is all but a lock to be a perennial 30 goal scorer going forward just grows on trees.

Yeah, no crud he looks replaceable when he's about 1/2 way to his NHL ceiling.

What he is and what he's going to be are different discussions though.

Some of the takes here hurt my head. When did Flames diehards get this dull.

Bison is a beast all over the ice, if you didn't notice. He's not just a great shot.

[Hockey]

Was pretty disgusted last night at my hockey game. So one guy on my team is an Oilers fan and has been his whole life. So are game was starting just as the 3rd period ended and one guy brought their phone on bench. I was D partners with the Oilers fan and just before we went to change the Oilers score and of course he's pumped up. I get out there and a couple seconds later rest of the bench noticed Oilers won and majority of them start slamming there sticks all pumped that Oilers won. I look over at the bench and say Are you effin kidding me right now, you guys are cheering for the Oilers too? I think I might need to quit this team now.


And add to that everyone else is a Canucks fan and they were cheering for Oilers. SMH. However I know at least one for sure that hates the Oilers too so he wasn't cheering.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

And that's the danger in rebuilding without acquiring any top-tier elite players; you could top out as a Dallas or a Carolina and never get over the hump.

Man, hockey sure is hard when you aren't gifted the best player in the world in a g****mn lottery.

Edmonton has yet to win the SC with that player they were gifted.

Meanwhile, a host of other teams have.