Calgary Roads Discussion Thread

[CliffFletcher]

The bulk of government revenue comes from personal taxes of one sort or another.

The point is our whole social welfare system was designed on a model where each new generation has more taxpayers than the last. And when it was set up, people typically lived for 10 years past retirement, not the 20+ of today. A balanced pay-as-you-go model would have looked very different. And transitioning into one now would be painful.

Denmark recently raised their pension age to 70 to address this demographic challenge. Unfortunately, we aren’t as cohesive or far-sighted.

[Mccree]

When is the construction on Deerfoot in the North scheduled to be completed. Feels like it has been on going for years?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Mccree

When is the construction on Deerfoot in the North scheduled to be completed. Feels like it has been on going for years?

It seems like all of Deerfoot is under construction.

From Deerfoot and Anderson to Deerfoot and 64

It's nearly 1 long 80km zone

[You Need a Thneed]

One thing I can say with certainty - Glenmore Deerfoot is going to a be a while yet.

They very clearly are going to finish the new bridge they are building, move ALL traffic onto that one, then demolish the existing bridge, and then rebuild it.

[You Need a Thneed]

On the Bow/Sarcee interchange design - look at the pedestrian accomodation!

Far too many interchanges were not designed with any pedestrian accommodation in mind (looking at you McKnight/Metis)

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

One thing I can say with certainty - Glenmore Deerfoot is going to a be a while yet.

They very clearly are going to finish the new bridge they are building, move ALL traffic onto that one, then demolish the existing bridge, and then rebuild it.

Do you know that for certain? I ask mostly because if you have a source with more details on the project, I would be interested in seeing it. The Deerfoot Improvements site lists it as an existing bridge.

At Anderson/Bow Bottom they show "new bridge" both on the one currently being rebuilt, as well as what is the existing section over Anderson.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Do you know that for certain? I ask mostly because if you have a source with more details on the project, I would be interested in seeing it. The Deerfoot Improvements site lists it as an existing bridge.

At Anderson/Bow Bottom they show "new bridge" both on the one currently being rebuilt, as well as what is the existing section over Anderson.

Yeah, both the city and project websites say existing bridge.

But what they are building there makes ZERO sense unless they plan to demolish and rebuild the existing bridge - unless they plan to maintain the weird lane split of the current construction phase permanently. The piers don't line up between the existing and new bridges, AT ALL.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Yeah, both the city and project websites say existing bridge.

But what they are building there makes ZERO sense unless they plan to demolish and rebuild the existing bridge - unless they plan to maintain the weird lane split of the current construction phase permanently. The piers don't line up between the existing and new bridges, AT ALL.

I mean, I suppose it's possible to fit the two lanes each way - PLUS the new centre pier through there:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.99307...oASAFQAw%3D%3D

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

But we aren't spending billions on light rail. It's completely on hold.

It's on hold because the Green Line insisted on spending all of the original funding on a risky tunnel at the expense of reaching the high ridership areas. And something the Province disagreed with.

There are billions of dollars for light rail, but not $10+ billion for a city the size of Calgary.

[Jimmy Stang]

I think that the Sarcee-Bow interchange looks just fine. I like the added access to Edworthy Park as that will help the left turn on EB Bow at 45 Street and reduce traffic in that neighbourhood.

I'm also OK with maintaining (improving, even) that little Strathcona entrance/exit. It is completely different than the Rocky Ridge one, which was never going to be possible. The Strathcona one comes before the interchange and doesn't interfere with the ramps like the Rocky Ridge one would've. Totally different beast.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I'm also OK with maintaining (improving, even) that little Strathcona entrance/exit. It is completely different than the Rocky Ridge one, which was never going to be possible. The Strathcona one comes before the interchange and doesn't interfere with the ramps like the Rocky Ridge one would've. Totally different beast.

The short weave between the Strathcona entrance and the exit to Sarcee SB will suck. It's the same weave length that's there today, except now there's a high speed exit ramp to Sarcee instead of a tighter at-grade intersection curve. That kind of spacing doesn't meet any modern design standards. This is giving into local complaints at the cost of good road design.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

The short weave between the Strathcona entrance and the exit to Sarcee SB will suck. It's the same weave length that's there today, except now there's a high speed exit ramp to Sarcee instead of a tighter at-grade intersection curve. That kind of spacing doesn't meet any modern design standards. This is giving into local complaints at the cost of good road design.

Fair point, and I know that you're much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. Is there an alternative design that would keep the neighbourhood happy, or is this just not possible to do (properly) there?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Fair point, and I know that you're much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. Is there an alternative design that would keep the neighbourhood happy, or is this just not possible to do (properly) there?

Make it a diamond interchange with some tighter right turns. You should be able to hit the minimum spacing for both the Strathcona access and the ramp intersections and it gets rid of a high speed turn you don't really need. Traffic might be worse on Bow Trail with this but it takes up less space and doesn't need to ignore design standards.

Here, I spent my lunch break sketching up the idea:

Spoiler!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mccree

When is the construction on Deerfoot in the North scheduled to be completed. Feels like it has been on going for years?

They’re hoping to be complete just in time for the next rehabilitation.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by accord1999

It's on hold because the Green Line insisted on spending all of the original funding on a risky tunnel at the expense of reaching the high ridership areas. And something the Province disagreed with.

There are billions of dollars for light rail, but not $10+ billion for a city the size of Calgary.

Tunnels aren't risky.

The expense is insane, and will be regardless of how it's built, because the governments of the western world has lost institutional knowledge regarding building major infrastructure projects.

https://slate.com/business/2023/02/s...sit-funds.html

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The bulk of government revenue comes from personal taxes of one sort or another.

The point is our whole social welfare system was designed on a model where each new generation has more taxpayers than the last. And when it was set up, people typically lived for 10 years past retirement, not the 20+ of today. A balanced pay-as-you-go model would have looked very different. And transitioning into one now would be painful.

Denmark recently raised their pension age to 70 to address this demographic challenge. Unfortunately, we aren’t as cohesive or far-sighted.

Harper had raised our age to 67 in the early 2010s, but then Trudeau happily put it back to 65 when he and the Libs got back into power.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Mccree

When is the construction on Deerfoot in the North scheduled to be completed.

Never. As long as we can't decide how to spend billions on the Green Line, the Deerfoot project that already has funds allocated should be put on hold and scaled back.

Mind you, the current work you see was already scaled back by about half a billion dollars from the original plan... but if I'm reading the above posts correctly then we should send everybody home and scale it back further and never complete it as long as the gongshow of a green line remains in perpetual limbo?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Yeah, both the city and project websites say existing bridge.

But what they are building there makes ZERO sense unless they plan to demolish and rebuild the existing bridge - unless they plan to maintain the weird lane split of the current construction phase permanently. The piers don't line up between the existing and new bridges, AT ALL.

A good 10 years ago I went to an Alberta Infrastructure open house; where the main project was adding the bridge that is currently under construction. The one guy from the province (I see him often in press briefings, really smart guy)- he was talking about how the existing bridges had a good 40 years of life left. So the new bridge would be built with room for more lanes below, and then later on we would get the other bridges rebuilt to match.

I guess that's 30 years of life at this point. Kind of makes sense. I do see where there should now be room for at least 7 or 8 lanes under Deerfoot; just needs to have the slope of the current support piers changed; making this section just a little wider:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PxPEM7yzSA9yKMuA6

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by Acey

Never. As long as we can't decide how to spend billions on the Green Line, the Deerfoot project that already has funds allocated should be put on hold and scaled back.

Mind you, the current work you see was already scaled back by about half a billion dollars from the original plan... but if I'm reading the above posts correctly then we should send everybody home and scale it back further and never complete it as long as the gongshow of a green line remains in perpetual limbo?

What did they scale back?

[Table 5]

With the Deerfoot/Glenmore interchange, is there a plan to give it proper Northbound Deerfoot to Westbound Glenmore access? Seems like that's always been the biggest issue (and probably most expensive), but I'm not seeing any plans to address that.