Throw Down who is the worst Flames GM of all time

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Risebrough was a damn fine hockey player, a decent coach, a pretty solid scout, and a very bad GM.


It's not even close.

I absolutely loved him when he played for the Flames, not so much when he turned coaching, don't know much about his scouting, but I absolutely hated him when he became GM.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Risebrough was a damn fine hockey player, a decent coach, a pretty solid scout, and a very bad GM.

That's very true. Flames fans got hurt so much by his work as a GM, we tend to forget how good he was at those other jobs.

I think his work as a coach is particularly underrated. I especially remember how he kept using cute little strategies to keep the power play fresh. They were always a threat with MacInnis and Suter on the points, of course, but penalty-killers could limit their effectiveness by boxing out the forwards.

Risebrough had a number of tricks that I've never seen another coach use. For instance, he would get MacInnis to telegraph a point shot – just wind up and hold his stick high for a split second. If the defenders didn't break formation, he would take the shot. If they committed to block his shooting lane, he would hammer the puck into the end boards and it would bounce out at an angle into the slot, where his teammates could pick it up for a grade-A scoring chance. That move resulted in a number of goals that would otherwise have been easy saves.

[Freeway]

Not everyone's gonna be great at everything. And I think Risebrough learned a lot from his Calgary experience that made him better in Minnesota when he got another chance.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Hilariously Tre learned nothing from your purportedly having his hands tied here and has moved to trading first rounders for garbage and walking top UFAs to an exit without any asset recovery in Toronto

lol wizard

Sometimes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck

That's typically what contending teams do.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hackey

That's typically what contending teams do.

And some picked winners and some picked losers

The wizard is the latter

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

And some picked winners and some picked losers

The wizard is the latter

Rentals are almost always losers, but every little boost might be the one that makes the difference. The Jets have traded away 1st round picks for rentals three times in recent years: Stastny (2018), Hayes (2019), and Monahan (2024). Bad management? Maybe. Maybe not.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Not everyone's gonna be great at everything. And I think Risebrough learned a lot from his Calgary experience that made him better in Minnesota when he got another chance.

Yeah. It’s called hire your buddy from Montreal and play extremely boring hockey to cover up your inability to draft/bring in talented players.

Surprised he even got a second chance. But, old boys club.

[Bingo]

I think you take a team to a certain point ... get into a window and then do what you can every year and hope you catch a break or two.

Most teams move their 1sts when they perceive they are in that window.

Misinterpreting when you're in that window and moving 1st prematurely happens though.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Yeah. It’s called hire your buddy from Montreal and play extremely boring hockey to cover up your inability to draft/bring in talented players.

The Wild were an expansion team before the salary cap. Of course they didn't have talented players at the start. It's silly to blame Risebrough for that.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you take a team to a certain point ... get into a window and then do what you can every year and hope you catch a break or two.

Most teams move their 1sts when they perceive they are in that window.

Misinterpreting when you're in that window and moving 1st prematurely happens though.

It's one of the reasons why it's hard to look at Carolina and think they're somehow failing. Out of the teams still playing, they're the only one to have a 1st rounder in the next two years, and they even have an extra one from Dallas. Plus they're top 5 in projected cap space with their top players mostly already under contract. Obviously picks and cap space don't mean anything if you can't turn them into good players, but they do look like a team that takes "resource management" extremely seriously.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I think his work as a coach is particularly underrated. I especially remember how he kept using cute little strategies to keep the power play fresh.

Disagree. Simply because much like the Canadian Olympic Team anybody on this forum probably could have "coached" that 90-91 roster to relative success.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Disagree. Simply because much like the Canadian Olympic Team anybody on this forum probably could have "coached" that 90-91 roster to relative success.

He also coached the 91-92 team which was the most disappointing year in franchise history. Losing Gilmour hurt, but that was still an extremely talented team. They all underperformed under Risebrough.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Oh god, that is bad. Brett Sutter was probably the best player drafted in those years. The nepo pick turned out to be the right one.

OT, but remember when JD Watt demanded a trade from the organization as if the Flames were the ones holding him back?

JD is a VP for Treeline service rigs downtown now. Nice guy.

[Vinny01]

I can’t speak to any GM pre cap since I was not really a hardcore fan until the 04 run

Darryl did a lot of good early here. Getting Kipper was a franchise changer and obviously his best move. Drafting was weak with Brodie, and Backlund being the highlights outside of early Phaneuf and Gio obviously being an unreal find. The moves he made at the deadline in 04 certainly helped with the run that year. Getting Langkow was an amazing trade and the following year Tanguay was a huge acquisition. His best work I think was the summer of 2008 where he swapped Tanguay for picks and used some picks to acquire Cammalleri, and Bourque. Signing Glencross and Bertuzzi that summer gave the Flames a revamped forward group. His deadline work was also fantastic getting a non-rental Jokinen and Leopold back for what should have been a great run. Injuries cost the team the division and had them facing Chicago in round one instead of the Blues. The year after that it all went to crap when Bouwmeester was brought in at the expense of keeping Cammy. The team had way too much money tied up in their top 4 and goalie there was no money left up front. I believe Bourque at $2.5M was the 4th highest paid forward on the team. The team had no prospects and the best players were 33 at the time. Sutter had to go

Feaster came in with the difficult job of promising to continue to contend. He had limited assets and made some fairly bad trades as GM. His best deal likely was the Erixon for Horak and 2 2nds (would have been an all-time trade had the Flames picked Kucherov who they were very interested in over Wotherspoon). His Regehr, Iginla, Bouwmeester, Tanguay/Sarich trades were all bad to terrible. Drafting was somewhat better under him. Only 3 years but he made 5 1st round picks in those 3 years with only Monahan really working out. Jankowski has been able to hang in the league but Sven fizzled out super fast and Poirier/Klimchuck were total busts. Gaudreau, Brossoit, Kulak were good to great late round picks. Bringing Cammalleri back was fun and a good trade but too late. Worst thing about Feaster is how he embarrassed himself and the organization on a couple of occasions. The RoR offer sheet and Iginla trade were ugly looks for the team. Feaster making playoff guarantees on TSN made him and the org look fairly silly. He cleared the deck for Burke and Treliving to rebuild including a lot of cap space. He provided the building blocks of Gaudreau and Monahan while Sutter still had building blocks of Gio, Brodie, Backlund for Treliving to inherit.

Burke was in the role for a few months. Not trading Cammy was upsetting to some fans but others were sick of getting fleeced so understood him holding firm. Getting a 2nd for Berra was a steal (would have been epic had the flames used that pick on Point instead of Hunter Smith) Burke brought some respect back to the org and was a good ambassador for the franchise in his 5 years here.

Treliving started off strong as his team shocked the hockey world in year one making it to round 2 of the playoffs when everyone expected them to be in the McDavid lottery chase. My favorite Treliving transactions involved acquiring and trading away Dougie Hamilton. He made a great move to get him after the surprise run and as a big right shot Dman he was exactly what this team hoped to add along Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett. A couple years later the team was spinning its tires he flipped Dougie, Ferland and a prospect who wouldn’t sign here for 2 younger former 5th overall picks in Lindholm and Hanifin who wouldn’t sign both breakout during their time here. Treliving couldn’t get the right goalie or the right coach and for 9 years this team would yo-yo up and down the standings moving the expectations of this team from one end of the spectrum to the other on an annual basis. The team finally seemed like it was a true contender as Sutter was back as coach and Markstrom finally solidified the net. He then loses both Gaudreau and Tkachuk in the same summer and completely overestimates his supporting cast and goes all in on 3 vets to replace his departing stars. That fails and he quits on the team leaving them in a position of needing a full rebuild while being tied to several long term deals. Had the team pivoted to a rebuild after the Americans left then it would have been more understandable than the emotional decision to go all in with a weaker hand.


End of the day of those 3 all have their faults. Feaster was the worst because I think the outside view of the organization was the worst during his time. Sutter and Treliving both had teams that at one point looked legit but only for a fleeting moment and never consistent or long term.

I am sure the worst of the GM’s came before the cap era but we have not had much luck in the cap era. So far I am very happy with Craig and hopefully he keeps it going.

[united]

Not opining on the topic but Robyn Regehr was on the Trevor Rose podcast last week and seems he is not a fan of Jay Feaster so what better thread to put this in? While the below is a small excerpt, I really enjoyed the entire podcast start to finish. Transcript copied from Apple so not entirely correct.
https://www.trose.ca/blogs/podcast/robynregehr

Interviewer
In hindsight, it's a good team. But at the time, are you thinking that we have a legitimate shot at Winning the Cup or are you just taking it day by day?

Regehr
Well, we felt we had a legitimate shot once it got to the finals. Like we had a great goaltender in Mikka Kiprusoff, Jarome Iginla was playing well, Craig Conroy. Like we had a solid team. We felt like we could win. But really, it also comes down to a little bit of luck. We had some bad luck with some injuries. I was injured with a high ankle sprain and had pretty much a frozen up foot, which its pretty hard to skate when your whole foots frozen. But that was what you're playing through. Lots of guys were playing through lots of different injuries. We'd lost some guys and unfortunately, we just kind of ran out of gas. Our lineup was a little bit thin with injuries. You have to give credit to Tampa. They played well. They had a great goaltender, Vincent Lecavalier, Brad Richards, some really good players.

It was hard to take (losing) and then you get through it and you're like, okay, we have a good team. We're going to be back next year and let's get at it again. Well, next year, we lose the whole season to the lockout. Gary Bettman wants the salary cap and locked us out and we lost the entire season. That's right in the prime of a lot of our careers. So that happened and then we still had a good team the year after that. But what happened was we lost to a really good up-and-coming Anaheim team in the first round. We had a great regular season, but then lost to them in seven games. I think we made the playoffs another couple (years after), but first round losses. And then all of a sudden, you start questioning. You question like, man, we had a great team. We were right there. Now we're on this downward trajectory.

And so the doubt and questions start coming in and yeah, it doesn't take long, like especially in professional sports, things are changing so quickly that you start asking, like, am I ever going to even have a chance to win again? You know, and for me, I was fortunate I did, but like I said, it took 10 years.

Interviewer
At that level, when things start to slide a little bit and you have options, how does that work? Do you start looking around? I don't know if you can talk about it or you remain loyal to the Flames, but what's that balance like?

Regehr
Well, for me personally, you have to look at it in a way that, and it's difficult, but because you're friends, like your friends and your teammates are around you, but you have to almost look at it like a producing asset too, in that we're all getting older. And usually when you get older, unless your name is Alexander Ovechkin, your production usually falls and your performance falls, and that's what was happening to us. Our team was getting older and we weren't getting quite the production performance out of the assets that we had here on this team.

And we also had some issues with salary cap and some of the contracts that were signed here in Calgary. So it was, I forget what year it was, Jay Feaster was the general manager and we didn't, I don't think we made the playoffs that year. And he called in, I think it was 8 or 10 players individually. And he just asked us a bunch of questions. So he asked me questions for about two and a half hours on everything. What I thought about the team, coaches, players, myself, you know, you name it. We went up and down. And so after he was done peppering me with those questions, I put him on the spot and I said, what are you going to do? What are you going to do with this team? Like this is where we're at. What's your plan? And his plan was to try to trade a couple of players that I knew had no movement clauses in their contracts. And so I knew, well, I had a pretty good idea that wasn't going to happen. And I said, what if they won't wave? He's like, well, then I guess we're stuck. So to me, that wasn't good enough. And I just said, you know, Jay, I want to win. I'm getting older and, you know, I'm not going to be able to play forever. That takes a huge toll on your body. And so I said, if there were some options where I could go somewhere that we had a chance (to win), I just said, I'd be willing to look at that. And that's it. I just said, I'd be willing to explore those options. I didn't demand anything because I've never been a fan of that.

And so I left the meeting at that. I never heard from him. I never heard from him for months. And so that would have been April, kind of mid-April until early June. I think it was just before mid June. It would have been just before the NHL draft. And our family, we're back at, we have a cabin in Saskatchewan, Northern Saskatchewan there. And we're back there and my phone rings. And it's Jay Feaster and he's just like, he just says, you know, will you waive your, I had a no movement clause. So even a stronger clause than a no trade. He's like, will you waive your no movement clause to go to Buffalo? And I'm like, what? Like, what's going on? And he's like, well, Buffalo wants you. They also will take Kotalik and his contract and that, and we want to make the trade. And, and so I immediately hung up after we talked and phoned my agent. And my agent was just absolutely livid. Because what happens is when you have a no movement or no trade, usually what the general manager does is they talk to you and your agent and say, where would you like to go? What kind of works for you? Some guys have a no, you know, a 10 team (list). We don't want those 10 teams and you scratch them off the list. But there's, there's some sort of back and forth and you work together as a unit. It did not happen at all. So now we start down the road where my agent was so mad. He's like, don't say anything. Don't do anything. Let me handle it.

So we just left it at that. And meanwhile, Buffalo was calling and saying, will you waive, will you waive? Well, what my agent ended up doing was he actually leaked the story of the trade to his buddy at TSN. And I found out later, the reason was is that then the whole league knows that you're in play, right? Like because Calgary and Buffalo had really done this very quietly, no one knew about it. So he was doing that to just open, open up more options for me as a player.

So that's how we started that whole thing. And then it was kind of got a little messy. Buffalo was after us, obviously saying, you know, we want you, we want you, you know, why aren't you waving? And I just said, you know, I'm not ready yet. We're looking at all options. And, and we could have done that if Jay would have brought us along with the whole process, but he didn't. So now we were kind of playing catch up. So it led to some really interesting interactions. And one that, you know, eventually we did decide to go to Buffalo and I'm glad we did because my wife and I both really enjoyed it there. And, and the ownership, the Pagulas, Terry and Kim Pagula were great, but it was that Feaster had kind of put us in a very tough spot that way. And I was pretty disappointed with him because really we had left the ball in his, his court in a very nice way saying, you know, we're willing to look at options, but then when he operated that way, yeah, my agent was pretty choked.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Part of the rationale in the Regehr trade was to clear up enough cap room to sign Brad Richards (and thankfully, he decided not to sign with Calgary even with Calgary offering him the most money).


What is really stupid about that trade is how Feaster talked all the time, but didn't seem to do it right. As Regehr stated above, it was not normal for a GM to first make the trade and then try to make the player waive - that's a bit underhanded. However, the most blatantly incompetent piece of this whole thing was Feaster not even approaching Kotalik. Buffalo got rid of his cap hit right away as he ended up going to Europe. Maybe if Feaster had called up Kotalik and/or his agent, and discussed some options there, he would have realized that Kotalik was willing to go back to Europe and the Flames would have cleared his cap hit. Regehr on the open market - even for full salary - would have returned considerably more than what that trade turned out to be. A few years later, Regehr was traded for two 2nd round picks.


Feaster was simply terrible at managing assets.

[Bingo]

I'd love to hear the behind the scenes blow by blow on the Iginla trade too.

[redmile04]

With what Treliving had to work with, the players and full cap space, he really fumbled the ball. No GM had that much to work with in recent eras.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd love to hear the behind the scenes blow by blow on the Iginla trade too.

That's a book someday.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Disagree. Simply because much like the Canadian Olympic Team anybody on this forum probably could have "coached" that 90-91 roster to relative success.

That's an obvious exaggeration. In fact, Risebrough got better results than Terry Crisp the year before, out of a team that had lost Joe Mullen and Brad McCrimmon and replaced them with nobody of importance. He deserves some credit for that.

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

He also coached the 91-92 team which was the most disappointing year in franchise history. Losing Gilmour hurt, but that was still an extremely talented team. They all underperformed under Risebrough.

The second year, he was coach and GM, and showed that he was absolutely incapable of doing both jobs at the same time. The Gilmour trade need not even have happened, but Gilmour and Risebrough-the-GM were fighting over contract issues, so Gilmour and Risebrough-the-coach stopped working together. The situation turned toxic in a hurry.

Risebrough should have made it clear from the outset that if the owners wanted him as GM, they needed to find another coach.