ECF: Florida Panthers (A3) vs Carolina Hurricanes (M3) - PANTHERS WIN 4-1

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The clips Bieksa showed of the Canes getting bullied were painful to watch. People go on about how size and grit aren’t important in the new NHL, but physical intimidation still matters in the league. A lot. And the playoffs are just a different beast from the regular season in terms of physicality.

This is a copycat league, so expect contending teams to rejig their rosters to get bigger and meaner.

I’m a big fan of Stankoven, but they really could have used Rantanen this series.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

31 fan bases didn’t have Chucky and Bennet on their team.

And the Flames didn’t/don’t have a Barkov.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Are you suggesting geography/taxes aren't a big advantage for teams like Florida, Tampa, Vegas, Dallas? I mean geography is the main reason Tkachuk is there.

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I wonder if they’d sit him for 1 while they’re home and can control matchups

Mikkola won't play the next game for sure. Maurice rests guys all the time.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Are you suggesting geography/taxes aren't a big advantage for teams like Florida, Tampa, Vegas, Dallas? I mean geography is the main reason Tkachuk is there.

It was also a 122 point team he was joining. I don't think Tkachuk would've joined the Panthers if it was the old version.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The clips Bieksa showed of the Canes getting bullied were painful to watch. Especially Aho getting jumped by Tkachuk, with two other Panthers ready to take on any Canes who joined the fray, and no Canes showing up.

People go on about how size and grit aren’t important in today’s NHL, but physical intimidation still matters in the league. A lot. And the playoffs are just a different beast from the regular season in terms of physicality.

This is a copycat league, so expect teams to rejig their rosters to get bigger and meaner.

They Blues won a Cup by bullying and Berube knowing refs won’t call more than 3-4 penalties in the playoffs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The league works in cycles and this type of team is rare to build. We had Anaheim we had LA we have Florida. Chicago won being skilled fast but still had some gritty guys. Tampa was skilled a fast with grit sprinkled in and a big defence. Vegas was a skill team as well.

These teams have players that are rare and everyone wants so it’s hard to build that way unless you win lotteries and get them because they go at the top of the draft.

You change your style and you end up drafting hunter smith and Keegan kanzig.

[SuperMatt18]

I think part of it is just the mentality more than actual size too TBH.

Panthers do have good size, but they play tenacious and with that mentality.

A similar Panthers roster was once called too soft, but then they swapped in Maurice and switched Huberdeau for Tkachuk and the entire mentality of that roster changes.

And that's kind of the consistency through all the best playoff teams of the last 15 years...Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Florida

Didn't matter if you are big or small on that roster, you all play with that tenacious "Don't back down, hate to lose" type of mentality.

You have to want to be in the battle, not be dragged into it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

No team has won the cup with a cap hit over 10M for a single player.

[Sylvanfan]

It's 2 ECF in 3 years for Carolina. They were in the easier Division so it's hard to say how they fare if it's a 1-8 playoff format.

If you look at the two teams. I think man to man the Panthers are fairly superior in terms of talent. At this time of year that matters. Carolina is like the Tampa Bay Ray's in that their value systems a high end coaching works well in the regular season when teams can't prepare like they do for a playoff series.

When you hit the playoffs where you run into a better team who can prepare to take you on...your chef making a meal of dollar store ingredients don't measure up against another 5 star Michelin Chef hand picking the best ingredients.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The league works in cycles and this type of team is rare to build. We had Anaheim we had LA we have Florida. Chicago won being skilled fast but still had some gritty guys. Tampa was skilled a fast with grit sprinkled in and a big defence. Vegas was a skill team as well.

Vegas were smallish up front. But they had one of the biggest d-corps in recent Cup history. They absolutely used their size to bully and wear down the opposition.

Pietrangelo 6’3”
Theodore 6’2”
Hague 6’6”
McNabb 6’4”
Martinez 6’1”
Whitecloud 6’2”

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think part of it is just the mentality more than actual size too TBH.

Panthers do have good size, but they play tenacious and with that mentality.

A similar Panthers roster was once called too soft, but then they swapped in Maurice and switched Huberdeau for Tkachuk and the entire mentality of that roster changes.

And that's kind of the consistency through all the best playoff teams of the last 15 years...Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Florida

Didn't matter if you are big or small on that roster, you all play with that tenacious "Don't back down, hate to lose" type of mentality.

You have to want to be in the battle, not be dragged into it.

Your last point wasn’t that the whole issue here with him. The leadership didn’t like him dragging the players into the mud with him. They thought other teams would bring their a game next time around. That tells you the issue with iteration of the Flames.

They had other issues as well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Vegas were smallish up front. But they had one of the biggest d-corps in recent Cup history. They absolutely used their size to bully and wear down the opposition.

Pietrangelo 6’3”
Theodore 6’2”
Hague 6’6”
McNabb 6’4”
Martinez 6’1”
Whitecloud 6’2”

Pretty sure Tampa had a big defence as well.

I agree you need size and grit in the playoffs my point was you can’t focus on that in drafts because you get away from skill and speed. That’s how you end up with Hunter Smith and not Brayden Point.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Are you suggesting geography/taxes aren't a big advantage for teams like Florida, Tampa, Vegas, Dallas? I mean geography is the main reason Tkachuk is there.

I addressed this is a reply to you on the previous page.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And the Flames didn’t/don’t have a Barkov.

Yup. But they also fast tracked another rebuild. A fluke playoff appearance and we spent picks and picked 6 the next season and dipped into free agency and traded more 1sts the following season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by BigThief

I addressed this is a reply to you on the previous page.

Geography and taxes probably matter but I don’t know winning seems to make a difference as well. 3/4 teams have cups. In fact Tampa and Florida have played in every final since Covid.

A lot of the Stars team was drafted I don’t see free agents flocking to Dallas.

I’ve said it before the Flames won’t have issues getting guys via trade and getting them to sign or UFA but you need to show a culture of winning.

[dino7c]

Rantanen just signed in Dallas for a lower rate largely because of taxes

[BigThief]

The Flames issues are there own, Zito built a fantastic team around solid core pieces and I don't know which player (a) you can directly attribute geography and taxes to. Tkachuk would even be a poor argument, his future as a Flame was fumbled by the GM here and he was heavily rumoured to be St Louis bound before the Panthers came calling.

The topic started with Brad Marchand who went to Florida because they're a contender.

They've continued to add solid parts through the draft with Anton Lundell and Samoskevic. Carter Verhaegh, Sam Reinhart, Gustav Forslin,and Sam Bennett are not "geography and taxes!" acquisitions. Those are all players either partial or fully given up on by their team that Florida saw value in.

No I'm not suggesting location and tax burden isn't considered but to brush aside Florida's success due to those issues is ignorant

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Geography and taxes probably matter but I don’t know winning seems to make a difference as well. 3/4 teams have cups. In fact Tampa and Florida have played in every final since Covid.

A lot of the Stars team was drafted I don’t see free agents flocking to Dallas.

I’ve said it before the Flames won’t have issues getting guys via trade and getting them to sign or UFA but you need to show a culture of winning.

Potentially 6 straight cups played in Florida.
8 straight played in Alberta (83-90).

Are those the longest single-state/province streaks in sports? I can’t imagine that happens a lot. Maybe with the Mets and Yankees? I don’t remember the Mets ever being good (other than recently), but I didn't pay much attention when I was younger. Twins vs Braves was the first time I really got excited about baseball.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by BigThief

The Flames issues are there own, Zito built a fantastic team around solid core pieces and I don't know which player (a) you can directly attribute geography and taxes to. Tkachuk would even be a poor argument, his future as a Flame was fumbled by the GM here and he was heavily rumoured to be St Louis bound before the Panthers came calling.

The topic started with Brad Marchand who went to Florida because they're a contender.

They've continued to add solid parts through the draft with Anton Lundell and Samoskevic. Carter Verhaegh, Sam Reinhart, Gustav Forslin,and Sam Bennett are not "geography and taxes!" acquisitions. Those are all players either partial or fully given up on by their team that Florida saw value in.

No I'm not suggesting location and tax burden isn't considered but to brush aside Florida's success due to those issues is ignorant

There was an interview with Marchy saying he didn’t know where he was headed and when he found out it was Florida he was happy cause that’s where he wanted to go. I thought it was odd, because everything I’ve heard from posters and media is saying that he picked Florida explicitly.

Edit: I just looked up his contract and he only has an 8-team NTC for his final year, so that’s 8 teams he can’t be traded to and 24 he can be. (There’s 32 now, right? I’ve lost count lol)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Rantanen just signed in Dallas for a lower rate largely because of taxes

Do you really think he signed because of taxes ?