BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There was 12 years between Bush and the first Trump term, so I don't know how relevant that is.

Second, do you seriously consider what the Trump administration is doing as your typical Republican actions?

It’s relevant because each time the noise around moving to Canada is far greater than the small number who actually go through with it. Complaining about the U.S. is far easier than overturning your life to move to another country.

I don’t think Trump is a typical Republican. But that doesn’t mean we’re going to see a flood of people uprooting their lives to leave the U.S. The vast majority of people make important life decisions based on financial considerations. That hasn’t changed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

No...they should lift all the major restrictions. They should have done it a long time ago. This is very on brand...let's lift some of the red tape to ease a restriction that painfully obviously should have never existed in the first place.

Has little to do with immigration and more to do with Professional Medical Associations refusing to acknowledge Foreign Accreditation.

I can anecdotally rattle off a half-dozen examples, but we accept Professional immigrants and then they're told that their qualifications are insufficient to our standards and they can't work until they re-qualify and for a lot of people that just isn't worth it.

My favourite is a woman who was the Chief Radiologist at a Hospital in London and the Primary Radiologist for the Royal Family. They convinced her to come to Calgary and then...wouldn't honour her credentials so she couldnt work.

She went back to England.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There was 12 years between Bush and the first Trump term, so I don't know how relevant that is.

Second, do you seriously consider what the Trump administration is doing as your typical Republican actions?

Very few Americans are moving here for the simple reason that it's way too expensive to live in Canada now.



While many recent migrants to the USA or former Canadians residents are moving to Canada, almost no US born citizens move to Canada now. This is part of a trend that started around 2010.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well this is where politics gets in the way of policy. We want more nurses, etc., but then we have xenophobic morons who bitch about us letting in too many immigrants.

Do people really bitch about immigrants moving to Canada to work as health care providers? That’s not something I’ve come across.

As I noted, Canada aggressively recruits health care professionals from overseas. But it’s a competitive market - every developed country is doing the same because they also have an aging population and rising health care staffing needs.

The real question is why we can’t ramp up domestic training of health care professionals. And that’s rooted in murky issues around financing and powerful vested interests.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No, this has more to do with the trade organizations justifying high wages by keeping the supply of offshore competition for jobs low

That doesn't make any sense. Most unions, especially the BC Nurses Union, want more protected members.

EDIT: Are you talking about the various licensing associations or the actual unions?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Has little to do with immigration and more to do with Professional Medical Associations refusing to acknowledge Foreign Accreditation.

I can anecdotally rattle off a half-dozen examples, but we accept Professional immigrants and then they're told that their qualifications are insufficient to our standards and they can't work until they re-qualify and for a lot of people that just isn't worth it.

My favourite is a woman who was the Chief Radiologist at a Hospital in London and the Primary Radiologist for the Royal Family. They convinced her to come to Calgary and then...wouldn't honour her credentials so she couldnt work.

She went back to England.

As I noted, Canada aggressively recruits health care professionals from overseas. But it’s a competitive market - every developed country is doing the same because they also have an aging population and rising health care staffing needs.

The real question is why we can’t ramp up domestic training of health care professionals. And that’s rooted in murky issues around financing and powerful vested interests

Lumping these two together. I think nearly everyone agrees on this. I'm sure if you polled the country, it'd probably be the one issue that gets unanimous support across the political spectrum.

It's also something every party promises in their platforms and then never implement. That said, BC has added about 16k nurses since 2018. It's still not enough but it's not nothing.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do people really bitch about immigrants moving to Canada to work as health care providers? That’s not something I’ve come across.

I've definitely come across it. It's more just an anti-immigration stance in general. They don't really consider the health care worker aspect. Saw a lot of this during Brexit, too.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Very few Americans are moving here for the simple reason that it's way too expensive to live in Canada now.

While many recent migrants to the USA or former Canadians residents are moving to Canada, almost no US born citizens move to Canada now. This is part of a trend that started around 2010.

I don't know, those changes look a bit too dramatic to be organic. Particularly given that "U.S. Residents Born in the US" and "U.S. Citizens, former temporary residents of Canada" aren't mutually exclusive categories, yet the latter seems to have almost totally replaced the former. What about a US-born person who is a former temporary resident of Canada?

Just as an example, pre-2012 there was an average of 45 "U.S. Citizens, former temporary residents of Canada" becoming permanent residents but by 2014 that number was 100x higher at 5,000 a year? That doesn't seem plausible unless the numbers are an artifact of changes in how immigrants are classified or processed.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I don't know, those changes look a bit too dramatic to be organic. Particularly given that "U.S. Residents Born in the US" and "U.S. Citizens, former temporary residents of Canada" aren't mutually exclusive categories, yet the latter seems to have almost totally replaced the former. What about a US-born person who is a former temporary resident of Canada?

Just as an example, pre-2012 there was an average of 45 "U.S. Citizens, former temporary residents of Canada" becoming permanent residents but by 2014 that number was 100x higher at 5,000 a year? That doesn't seem plausible unless the numbers are an artifact of changes in how immigrants are classified or processed.

Sorry, I should have linked to the whole report.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00004-eng.pdf

There's another chart that shows the majority of Canadian residents returning to the USA were Canadian born (around 75%). My guess is that a lot of these people are people with dual citizenship, who were born in Canada, moved to the USA, and are no moving back to Canada.

In sum, there have been significant shifts in the composition of U.S. immigrants to Canada since the 1980s, when migration inflows were dominated by U.S. residents born in the United States. In recent years, the majority of U.S. immigrants to Canada have been either U.S. non-citizen residents or U.S. citizens who were temporary residents in Canada. These changes are likely driven in part by the large increase of temporary foreign workers in Canada and the increasing selection of immigrants from this
pool (Hou, Crossman & Picot, 2020).

Additionally, the number of U.S. citizen residents (both those born in and outside the United States) moving to Canada increased during the second term of the 43rd presidential administration and declined during the 44th administration, whereas U.S. non-citizen residents moving to Canada quadrupled in the first three years of the 45th administration and decreased under the 46th administration. The movement of Canadian-born individuals and permanent residents returning from the United States also reflected
shifts in U.S. government administrations.

So, it's basically people who've lived in Canada before who are coming back and migrant workers moving to Canada. Fresh migration form the USA is very low.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Sorry, I should have linked to the whole report.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00004-eng.pdf

OK, looking at the full report it explains how they break down the categories, but I don't think it necessarily points to a big drop in US-born immigrants. Here's how they distinguish the two categories I was talking about:

(1) U.S.-born individuals whose last country of residence was the United States

(4) U.S. citizens who were temporary residents in Canada before obtaining Canadian permanent residency. (Note: This group includes those who reported Canada as their country of last residence or held temporary residency permits in Canada before obtaining Canadian permanent residency)

So if I'm reading that correctly, any US-born citizen who was on a Canadian work permit prior to getting permanent residency would fit into #4, because they weren't US residents at the time of getting Canadian permanent residency.

To me that suggests there was some kind of process change in the early 2010s. Based on a quick search, it seems like in late 2012 they introduced a rule where permanent resident applicants could get work permits while their application was still being processed. And overnight, the number of people who fit into category #4 went from ~100 in 2011 to almost 4000 in 2013, so I'd assume that's what's driving it. But a significant percent of those who fit into #4 (the green bar on the chart) are likely US born.

There's another chart that shows the majority of Canadian residents returning to the USA were Canadian born (around 75%). My guess is that a lot of these people are people with dual citizenship, who were born in Canada, moved to the USA, and are no moving back to Canada.

So, it's basically people who've lived in Canada before who are coming back and migrant workers moving to Canada. Fresh migration form the USA is very low.

Keep in mind, Chart 2 is an entirely different sample than Chart 1. Chart 1 refers to new permanent residents while Chart 2 is existing citizens/permanent residents returning to Canada. So of the 52K Canadians that returned to Canada from the US between 2016 and 2021, 75% were citizens and 25% were permanent residents. But those figures have no bearing on what's in Chart 1.

[KelVarnsen]

Andrea Woo @andreawoo.bsky.social‬
New BC Coroners Service prelim data: 132 ppl died from illicit drug toxicity in Feb, 143 in March (avg 4.7 and 4.6 deaths per day). Six consecutive months of deaths below 160.

https://bsky.app/profile/andreawoo.b.../3lp5ziy6fnk2i

The numbers are still too high but they are trending down

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

https://bsky.app/profile/andreawoo.b.../3lp5ziy6fnk2i

The numbers are still too high but they are trending down

Be nice if the BC Conservatives and some of the other crowd who were so adamantly against decrim and safe supply admit that maybe they judged it a bit too early.

Obviously they won't, but makes me even more glad they didn't get in.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That doesn't make any sense. Most unions, especially the BC Nurses Union, want more protected members.

EDIT: Are you talking about the various licensing associations or the actual unions?

the two tend to go hand in hand

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the two tend to go hand in hand

Yeah, I disagree then on the union's part. They almost always want more members. More members = more dues, volunteer stewards, etc.

[rubecube]

I take back the superlatives I was giving the NDP re: nurses. Sounds like they're asking existing BC nurses to take benefits cuts during the current round of collective-bargaining, while making this show of trying to recruit American nurses.

Grandstanding/virtue-signaling at its absolute finest.

[Weitz]

If I’m an American nurse why would I take the massive pay cut to come to BC? Life can’t be that bad down there.

My sister is a Nurse in BC and she mostly does travel nursing in Washington and Oregon because she can work less and make significantly more. Will pick up the odd shift in BC between contracts.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If I’m an American nurse why would I take the massive pay cut to come to BC? Life can’t be that bad down there.

My sister is a Nurse in BC and she mostly does travel nursing in Washington and Oregon because she can work less and make significantly more. Will pick up the odd shift in BC between contracts.

As mentioned in the other posts, I think if you're a nurse who could be at risk of being held by ICE or someone in the LGBTQ+ community, then I could see it being worth the paycut.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If I’m an American nurse why would I take the massive pay cut to come to BC? Life can’t be that bad down there.

My sister is a Nurse in BC and she mostly does travel nursing in Washington and Oregon because she can work less and make significantly more. Will pick up the odd shift in BC between contracts.

Not everyone is solely motivated by getting the highest salary. Even with relatively lower pay, a nurse could have a higher quality of life in a lot of places in BC than in many US states.

Not to mention many medical practitioners' specialization is in things that the US federal government is actively working to undermine. I know a Nurse Practitioner who lives in the US and her focus is on women's health and contraception, and she is seriously considering a move to BC. Her husband is Canadian, so she has some ties here, but they were pretty happy down there until the last few years.

Obviously there isn't going to be some max exodus, but moving from the US to Canada is viable for some people, so we might as well make it easier and more attractive for them to move here.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Not everyone is solely motivated by getting the highest salary. Even with relatively lower pay, a nurse could have a higher quality of life in a lot of places in BC than in many US states.

Not to mention many medical practitioners' specialization is in things that the US federal government is actively working to undermine. I know a Nurse Practitioner who lives in the US and her focus is on women's health and contraception, and she is seriously considering a move to BC. Her husband is Canadian, so she has some ties here, but they were pretty happy down there until the last few years.

Obviously there isn't going to be some max exodus, but moving from the US to Canada is viable for some people, so we might as well make it easier and more attractive for them to move here.

The ideal situation is cross border work like all those healthcare workers in southern Ontario who live in Canada for the sweet quality of life but work in Buffalo or Detroit and get paid the big American salaries. Those folks are winning.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The ideal situation is cross border work like all those healthcare workers in southern Ontario who live in Canada for the sweet quality of life but work in Buffalo or Detroit and get paid the big American salaries. Those folks are winning.

I think we also as a country get some of that back as tax revenue, too, don't we? Maybe Locke can confirm if he's lurking in here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think we also as a country get some of that back as tax revenue, too, don't we? Maybe Locke can confirm if he's lurking in here.

We do because they're Canadian Residents and have to pay Canadian taxes, but not quite as much as America would get first dibs on the withholding taxes.