Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I disagree. Dillon was captain of this team, right? I think it's pretty natural that he be the one to start/ lead conversations and don't think you can attribute any guilt because of that. Further, again, I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a group who is in a crisis situation to wish to discuss the crisis situation. The fact that the group chat exists doesnt demonstrate any guilt on whether or not there was consent at any point.

Agreed. Any group, if they were subject to an investigation of something, would naturally want to discuss it even if they were certain of their innocence. It’s unfair to assume because people are wanting to discuss the situation implies any guilt. What matters is what they say. The couple of comments about not telling the investigators about certain events isn’t great of course, but it seems that multiple times they say things like don’t make things up, tell the truth, just say what happened.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I disagree. Dillon was captain of this team, right? I think it's pretty natural that he be the one to start/ lead conversations and don't think you can attribute any guilt because of that. Further, again, I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a group who is in a crisis situation to wish to discuss the crisis situation. The fact that the group chat exists doesnt demonstrate any guilt on whether or not there was consent at any point.

The contents of the chat so far don't seem to be very predatory. If anything, it seems at the time that the group felt they would be easily vindicated by details of the story. Repeated requests to tell the truth... that doesnt really read like trying to fix a story. They're not repeating specific details of events to each other in the chat. There are some loose details. I'm not privy to all details of the case, but I don't think that's smoking gun evidence of anything.

I also don't think a desire to use different messaging software can really be taken as evidence of guilt. Though, I agree, the use of snapchat in particular is typical of wanting to hide or delete conversations. But it's not a 1+1=2 situation.

They seemed to know that their messaging could be uncovered by police. So there could be lots of self serving posts made.

[Tbull8]

Ya idk how many people would be urging everyone to “just tell the truth” if there was nothing illegal that was done… feels very calculated imo. Especially in the chat that could be audited, unlike snapchat history or other forms of communication

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They seemed to know that their messaging could be uncovered by police. So there could be lots of self serving posts made.

Ya, there could. Again, I am not trying to infer guilt or non-guilt, just trying to counter the "these guys are sickos!!!" crowd who I still feel are too eager to get ahead of the actual facts of the case.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Ya idk how many people would be urging everyone to “just tell the truth” if there was nothing illegal that was done… feels very calculated imo. Especially in the chat that could be audited, unlike snapchat history or other forms of communication

No offence, but isn't this too much overthinking? For example, if they were being falsely accused, not saying they are at all, but wouldn't their chat theoretically say "just tell the truth"?

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Ya idk how many people would be urging everyone to “just tell the truth” if there was nothing illegal that was done… feels very calculated imo. Especially in the chat that could be audited, unlike snapchat history or other forms of communication

But if you didn’t think you had done anything wrong, you wouldn’t be saying just tell the truth? I know I would.

Maybe they know they’re guilty and hiding it, but I don’t know how you can infer a level of guilt from people saying “just tell the truth, we didn’t do anything wrong”.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I suspect they don't believe they did anything wrong.
But they are worried if others on the team, including those in the room, feel that same way. Or if any of them didn't feel good about what they saw.

[Enoch Root]

Remember, these were 18 year old kids - expecting them to handle the situation, and their wording, with maturity and aquity, is unrealistic

[Monahammer]

One thing we haven't discussed is that one or more of the accused could potentially be "victims" to some extent as well. If the argument is that peer pressure and going along with the group overrode some of the complainant's own will and desire to participate (consent) then couldn't it potentially be argued that one or more of the accused also felt similar pressure to proceed with sexual acts due to the setting, environment, and perceived expectation?

Put more crassly, if there was a naked girl in the middle of the room asking "who's going to #### me" and you've been called gay on the ice by a few guys on the team also in said room, could you have additional peer pressure or motivation override your own true consent to participate in these activities and go along with them in an out of body experience, too?

Totally imagined scenario.

[flamesfan1297]

I don't think the group wanting to use Snapchat necessarily implies that they were trying to hide the messages or have them covered up, in 2018 Snapchat was very popular with teenagers and could have just been the app that they were using most commonly at the time

[powderjunkie]

Once things started to get out of hand we all left and got her out.’”

Seems like a bit of a smoking gun, though of course its hard to nail down exactly what it means

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Seems like a bit of a smoking gun, though of course its hard to nail down exactly what it means

And this...

"we got out of the room when things got too crazy."

Suggests that at some point some of the were uncomfortable with what was going on.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Heather Donkers herself was a SA victim while she was an undergrad student at Queen's University.

Source?

Have been looking for info on her, but don’t see much available other than stuff she’s written.

[Monahammer]

Last comment on this today, but i personally would not be comfortable in a room where my buddy is getting a blowjob from a girl. That would be "too crazy" or "out of hand" for me, and would make me leave the room. Again, i think you have to read in malice to that. Though the "got her out" part is of interest, IMO.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

No offence, but isn't this too much overthinking? For example, if they were being falsely accused, not saying they are at all, but wouldn't their chat theoretically say "just tell the truth"?

Could be! Just doesn’t sit well with me personally. Gives “HR is listening in so talk about how much we love the company” haha

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Remember, these were 18 year old kids - expecting them to handle the situation, and their wording, with maturity and aquity, is unrealistic

Reading all of this one of my thoughts was Bean seems like a smart kid, in general. Read like he dismissed the idea of them having a group call.

[taxbuster]

Not too happy about Bean’s presence or actions (or lack thereof). Seems he was content to go along with the “nothing to see here” story.

[Strange Brew]

Just based from what I’ve read, last two days really don’t sound great for the prosecution. No smoking gun really.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It's a mixed message. Basically tell the truth but let's make sure we are all saying the same thing. And can be read as some level of peer pressure against those who maybe had a different perception of what happened.

Why would you even need a group chat to coordinate what the truth is?

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Why would you even need a group chat to coordinate what the truth is?

Exactly.