Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GGG

This implies that they have less of a right to self determination than you do.

….. no. That would be acting for self. The other is imposing on others…

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

….. no. That would be acting for self. The other is imposing on others…

If a majority of people wanted to leave then separation is reasonable. A population has the right to determine its future.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

If a majority of people wanted to leave then separation is reasonable. A population has the right to determine its future.

Except people can leave without it having a direct, major impact on other individuals. Separation, on the other hand, impacts other people.

You’re way off on this one. Good attempt though.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by GGG

If a majority of people wanted to leave then separation is reasonable. A population has the right to determine its future.

No they don’t, because Alberta is part of Canada, and the majority of Canadians do not reside in Alberta.

[Badgers Nose]

Smith, Nenshi, Bell... All useful idiots or trolls being supported one way or another by CIA to destabilize and capture part or all of Canada. Yeah, I know it reads crazy but I've studied enough history and politics to know the USA has done similar or worse around the world - even Italy during the Red Adriatic scare. Impossible that they would not have their hooks in the biggest neighbor, trading partner and undefended border.

Most people will vote casually to leave Canada and then cry like babies when they have no healthcare, education or pension.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Smith, Nenshi, Bell... All useful idiots or trolls being supported one way or another by CIA to destabilize and capture part or all of Canada. Yeah, I know it reads crazy but I've studied enough history and politics to know the USA has done similar or worse around the world - even Italy during the Red Adriatic scare. Impossible that they would not have their hooks in the biggest neighbor, trading partner and undefended border.

Most people will vote casually to leave Canada and then cry like babies when they have no healthcare, education or pension.

lol wut

[direwolf]

I think what bothers me the most about all of this is that these dips***s believe that a small minority of traitors speaks for a province of 5 million. News flash: they don’t. The majority of Albertans don’t want any part of this ridiculous crap.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Smith, Nenshi, Bell... All useful idiots or trolls being supported one way or another by CIA to destabilize and capture part or all of Canada. Yeah, I know it reads crazy but I've studied enough history and politics to know the USA has done similar or worse around the world - even Italy during the Red Adriatic scare. Impossible that they would not have their hooks in the biggest neighbor, trading partner and undefended border.

Most people will vote casually to leave Canada and then cry like babies when they have no healthcare, education or pension.

The ridiculous part is they don't even see the truth of it. They are being played like banjos by Putin.

Just one article, many out there:

Marcus Kolga, a Canadian expert in Russia and disinformation, said it was an article likely commissioned by the Russian government.

“These are agencies that are directly linked to the Kremlin — and if they’re linked to the Kremlin, they’re directly linked to Vladimir Putin and the president’s office in Russia,” said Kolga.

“(It’s) to break us apart, to divide us … to push the left and right further apart from each other, so that the divide becomes bigger and bigger.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-academics-say

Imagine being a useful idiot for Russia, and then blaming conspiracies on the other side because you have been so thoroughly duped you could be convinced to huff gas to prevent vaccine shedding contaminating your pristine blood.

These people should be mocked relentlessly. I think calling them Russians every time you come across one would be a fun start.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol wut

'have the referendum tomorrow'

Arrogant, stupid or serving a master. If a referendum happened in two months the separatists would win. It's at 30% with no glitzy advertising or charismatic Farage figure to sell it.

Brexit proved these decisions are too important to trust to the electorate. They re mostly idiots that can't plan around a 5 year boom/bust cycle let alone the future or Canada.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by direwolf

I think what bothers me the most about all of this is that these dips***s believe that a small minority of traitors speaks for a province of 5 million. News flash: they don’t. The majority of Albertans don’t want any part of this ridiculous crap.

It's not small. And it will get very big with the right messaging and promises.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

'have the referendum tomorrow'

Arrogant, stupid or serving a master. If a referendum happened in two months the separatists would win. It's at 30% with no glitzy advertising or charismatic Farage figure to sell it.

Brexit proved these decisions are too important to trust to the electorate. They re mostly idiots that can't plan around a 5 year boom/bust cycle let alone the future or Canada.

lol alright, I think you’ve gone off the deep end then. I thought it was a typo, but suggesting Nenshi is a CIA plant is incredibly stupid, and then misrepresenting his message and thinking the separatists would have won two months ago makes me think you’re not even in the same reality as anyone else.

You gotta go touch grass brother..

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

lol alright, I think you’ve gone off the deep end then. I thought it was a typo, but suggesting Nenshi is a CIA plant is incredibly stupid, and then misrepresenting his message and thinking the separatists would have won two months ago makes me think you’re not even in the same reality as anyone else.

You gotta go touch grass brother..

Your mistake is thinking that's there's a difference between Smith and Nenshi. They are both calling for the referendum.

And yes, if it happen in two months - not sure where you get two months ago, temporally challenged - then I would bet on the separatists winning. Polls show 30% with no marketing.

It's not rocket science and requires very little imagination given we've witnessed a similar campaign in the last 10 years.

You need to open your mind to the threat.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Except people can leave without it having a direct, major impact on other individuals. Separation, on the other hand, impacts other people.

You’re way off on this one. Good attempt though.

Originally Posted by Drak

No they don’t, because Alberta is part of Canada, and the majority of Canadians do not reside in Alberta.

So you guys don’t believe that of Quebec answers to separate on a clear question that they should be able to separate or that Brexit wasn’t a valid projection of democracy.

Your argument of if you don’t like it leave would apply to you in Alberta if remain is a minority position in Alberta.

The argument that all of Canada would have to agree is just a tyranny of the majority argument which is used to suppress populations. While I am steadfastly in the remain camp and would likely move to retire in Canada if this this happened people wanting independent nations aren’t traitors.

The existence of Canada is essentially the British recognizing that locals should rule themselves in order to avoid violent revolution.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

'have the referendum tomorrow'

Arrogant, stupid or serving a master. If a referendum happened in two months the separatists would win. It's at 30% with no glitzy advertising or charismatic Farage figure to sell it.

Brexit proved these decisions are too important to trust to the electorate. They re mostly idiots that can't plan around a 5 year boom/bust cycle let alone the future or Canada.

No way separatists would win. The UCP only got 54% of the vote. Separation is less popular than the UCP 1/10 UCP members vote to stay and it fails. Faced with the reality of having to make a choice and people will come back.

The whisp that PP wasn’t nationalist enough boosted the party by 20%. It’s not a creditable threat.

[Fuzz]

I have no faith in Alberttans not choosing to do the dumbest thing when promised more money.

[Drak]

There is no tyranny here. We live in one of the freest countries in the world. Again, Alberta is part of Canada. People that live in Alberta are not hard done by. They don’t have it bad. It IS treasonous to willfully push and be an active participant in propaganda that seeks to rip our nation apart. We are in a global information war and this is part of that. Toppling countries around the world starts here - removing territory and a significant part of our economy.

If people don’t like it here, in Canada, then yes, they should leave and go move to the USA. Or Russia.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Your mistake is thinking that's there's a difference between Smith and Nenshi. They are both calling for the referendum.

And yes, if it happen in two months - not sure where you get two months ago, temporally challenged - then I would bet on the separatists winning. Polls show 30% with no marketing.

It's not rocket science and requires very little imagination given we've witnessed a similar campaign in the last 10 years.

You need to open your mind to the threat.

No, you just need to get back in touch with reality. No amount of marketing is suddenly going to make this thing appealing to a majority of people, the numbers and overall sentiment in Alberta just don’t support it.

And yes, Smith and Nenshi are different, you’re not actually offering up anything of substance as to why they aren’t, outside of just “one is toying with a referendum and the other called her bluff” which just doesn’t support the basic idea that they’re the same at all, and has zero connection to the CIA lol.

Conspiracies like this aren’t “seeing the threat,” they’re a legitimate sign of mental illness. I would talk to a professional about it. Not even joking or being snarky.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

So you guys don’t believe that of Quebec answers to separate on a clear question that they should be able to separate or that Brexit wasn’t a valid projection of democracy.

Your argument of if you don’t like it leave would apply to you in Alberta if remain is a minority position in Alberta.

The argument that all of Canada would have to agree is just a tyranny of the majority argument which is used to suppress populations. While I am steadfastly in the remain camp and would likely move to retire in Canada if this this happened people wanting independent nations aren’t traitors.

The existence of Canada is essentially the British recognizing that locals should rule themselves in order to avoid violent revolution.

Yes, it would, so if your argument is that it’s not valid before separation, why is it valid to you after?

My position has nothing to do with whether something is democratic or not. It’s a response to your absurd position that telling people they should exercise their personal right to self determination instead of trying to force a decision on everyone is someone a suggestion that they have less of a right to self determination.

It’s nonsensical gobbledy####.

If people don’t want to be part of Canada, there are plenty of decisions they can make that have minimal impact on anyone else. It’s not at all unreasonable or discounting their rights to suggest maybe they should do that.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GGG

So you guys don’t believe that of Quebec answers to separate on a clear question that they should be able to separate or that Brexit wasn’t a valid projection of democracy.

Does “valid projection of democracy” account for the fact that the pro-Brexit majority there was sold on a false bill of goods on Brexit… which many of the enthusiastic pro-Brexiters came to lament in short order after finding their employers cutting jobs and losing money hand over fist as EU trade agreements went bye bye and decimated UK-EU trade, investments in the UK, etc.? Hell, the effects are still being felt today. It was a proper “Leopards Ate My Face” scenario over there in the wake of Brexit.

If you’re blatantly misled and outright lied to with respect to an outcome then pick that thing, is that an example of democracy in action?

Usually, we would call that fraud.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Except people can leave without it having a direct, major impact on other individuals. Separation, on the other hand, impacts other people.

You’re way off on this one. Good attempt though.

Right. If the majority wanted Alberta to separate the minority has the option to leave without major impact on other individuals.

The beauty of the mobility option is that people can chase whatever local government is elected every few years. Don't like the current government in Alberta it is possible to move to BC. Don't like BC after some time maybe Ontario will be better? After that maybe a new government in Alberta will be enticing again. None of these decisions have any impact on others.