Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I have a question for the law folks...

If they are found guilty, can she go after them individually for damages, or would/could the agreement with Hockey Canada preclude that? Or is it just legally impossible or difficult?

If they could that would be an abject failure on the part of Hockey Canada's legal team. Typically once a payment is agreed, an NDA, Release of all parties and a gag order are part of the consideration for payment.


As to them suing her? I'd think that's a pretty bad look or possibility unless they could prove the criminal prosecution malicious, vexatious or utterly without merit. (Suing the Crown would be more profitable IMO and I'm not sure the victim would be suable.)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

If they could that would be an abject failure on the part of Hockey Canada's legal team. Typically once a payment is agreed, an NDA, Release of all parties and a gag order are part of the consideration for payment.


As to them suing her? I'd think that's a pretty bad look or possibility unless they could prove the criminal prosecution malicious, vexatious or utterly without merit. (Suing the Crown would be more profitable IMO and I'm not sure the victim would be suable.)

Yeah, I don't know anything about NDAs and what they can and can't include, other than that they can't be used to cover up a crime or prevent someone from cooperating with police if a crime took place.

It seems like they are best used when there might not be enough evidence for charges, but you want to prevent the person from going public with the story. In this case, Hockey Canada probably miscalculated. Once she went after Hockey Canada, they seemed to settle with her at lightning fast speed though, which suggests to me that they were pretty scared.

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

If they could that would be an abject failure on the part of Hockey Canada's legal team. Typically once a payment is agreed, an NDA, Release of all parties and a gag order are part of the consideration for payment.


As to them suing her? I'd think that's a pretty bad look or possibility unless they could prove the criminal prosecution malicious, vexatious or utterly without merit. (Suing the Crown would be more profitable IMO and I'm not sure the victim would be suable.)

If an NDA was part of the civil agreement - which is a probability - then if she testifies to this openly in court, that would defy the NDA. Which intern would allow hockey Canada to go after her for the paid amount. I’m not saying that they would do this, but it wouldnt this give HC the tool to do just that?

[Strange Brew]

An NDA does not apply to testifying in court. Legal duty overrides the NDA.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

An NDA does not apply to testifying in court. Legal duty overrides the NDA.

Yes. Every NDA has an exclusion for disclosure required by courts.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes. Every NDA has an exclusion for disclosure required by courts.

And even if it doesn't, I doubt it matters.

You can't contract with a person by paying them money to not testify in criminal proceedings.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

And even if it doesn't, I doubt it matters.

You can't contract with a person by paying them money to not testify in criminal proceedings.

That is correct. I’m just saying every NDA makes that clear. And not just in criminal proceedings - any court requirement to disclose. As well as other situations.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by csnarpy

If an NDA was part of the civil agreement - which is a probability - then if she testifies to this openly in court, that would defy the NDA. Which intern would allow hockey Canada to go after her for the paid amount. I’m not saying that they would do this, but it wouldnt this give HC the tool to do just that?

Nope. And it's "in turn".


Now that's out of the way, one cannot negotiate out of testifying in Court with a Civil settlement.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

The text messages started before the investigation (McLeod inviting people to his room).

It seems like you're trying to suggest the victim has nothing to be upset about.

There is wrongdoing on someone's part either way, otherwise there would be no investigation and certainly not a trial. Either the 5 defendants sexually assaulted her or she's falsely accusing them.

The statistics show that false accusations are rare.

Whether it can be proven in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt is where it will get hung up, and I'm not getting my hopes up for justice for the victim.

We are getting only snippets of the facts, and I don't see how anybody can look at them and not realize that she never truly consented to the latter part of the evening (whether too drunk or felt coerced with 10 men vs. 1 woman).

I get that the defendants deserve their day in court and why things have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

But as a female observer - she was sexually assaulted.

I didn't say anything remotely like this.

Wanting a rape allegation to go away, regardless of guilt/innocence, is natural.

I'd agree, from what I've seen, it seems like the players did something awful. I haven't seen all the evidence though.

Edit: also the fact there is a trial or an investigation is most certainly not proof of wrongdoing.

[Locke]

Ironically, if convicted it would appear that these guys will be punching a one-way ticket to being on the other side of this scenario.

[Eric Vail]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...yers-9.6748199

This situation is so grim. I get the impression this wasn't the first time they did this, but it was a regular game. It is so disgusting.

[TheIronMaiden]

The live updates are pretty grim. I would recommend not reading them.
Horrific actually.

[Scroopy Noopers]

She just testified that someone said this when they noticed her crying and actively trying to leave:

”oh she’s crying, don’t let her go”

Bury them under the prison.

[BigT112]

I just cannot fathom that anyone could think this is okay, truly a sick mindset. I feel so so awful for the victim.

[bdubbs]

Absolutetly disgusting. These updates are horrific to read.

[Hot_Flatus]

Just sickening and deplorable that anyone would think this is a decent way to act as a human let alone as somewhat of a community figure (which they were).

You have to be a special POS to participate in that, treat another human like that, and at the very least not realize she is not ok with it pretty early on.

I truly hope they are able to tie specific acts to specific players based on group chats and or images from phones etc. so that there is no doubt and nobody gets out of this usncathed.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

There is a difference. A group of young men "playing" with a lone female....I'm not sure that meets a human standard for anyone (including if she were your daughter).

Today's testimony by EM is absolutely brutally inhuman....if true, these guys treated her worse than a junkyard dog.


It must be absolutely terrifyingly awful for her to have to recount this in open court. And she hasn't met the defence lawyers yet who, no doubt, will attempt to rip her and her story to shreds in as many different ways as they can exploit.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Just sickening and deplorable that anyone would think this is a decent way to act as a human let alone as somewhat of a community figure (which they were).

You have to be a special POS to participate in that, treat another human like that, and at the very least not realize she is not ok with it pretty early on.

I truly hope they are able to tie specific acts to specific players based on group chats and or images from phones etc. so that there is no doubt and nobody gets out of this usncathed.

I believe from what was reported earlier that the Crown did this in her opening statement.

[Hot_Flatus]

I feel like only Mcleod and Foote (mr splits) had anything tied to them in any meaningful way so far. Shame on the police and anyone that didn't pursue this previously as well.

Moving forward I'm not sure how you even associate with any of these guys if you are a WAG, family or friend. Regardless of the outcome it's just flat out inhuman and disgusting.

[Royle9]

Makes you wonder how the current girlfriends or fiancé's feel about this... and the actual details now.
Cant imagine that's going over too well, I doubt the guys ever truly came clean.
Good riddance.