2025 NHL Draft Thread

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I’ll throw it out there again. Let’s say Schaefer goes 1 and whoever is at 2 offers you the pick for parekh. Do you take it and draft Misa? I’m starting to lean towards no

It's a no from me Dawg.

Misa to play with Parekh? Hell ya. But not one for the other.

Saying that, I would be willing to give basically anything in our org outside of Wolf and Parekh for that pick.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I’ll throw it out there again. Let’s say Schaefer goes 1 and whoever is at 2 offers you the pick for parekh. Do you take it and draft Misa? I’m starting to lean towards no

Nah, Parekh has progressed too well imo and the Flames have a lot of interesting D prospects but he’s the only one with clear #1D upside

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

(This is a longer post, and I guess I had a lot to say about this topic. Not everything is directly related to your post Enoch, and I actually generally agree with your concerns and I usually share them as well).



Completely understand what you are saying, but this is when proper scouting comes in. I think a lot of these guys fail simply because of poor scouting, or simply because it is an 18 year old draft, period.


For instance, this board still rages about the Keegan Kanzig and Hunter Smith picks, but they do it without any context for the most part other than size. They just assume that both of these players were talentless goons who were drafted only for their size and nothing else.



In Kanzig's case, the Flames had their org meetings in Vancouver that year, and Button decided to get everyone to take the ferry over and go and check out Kanzig. He was on their radar from the previous season already. Every scout loved him. They kept tabs on him throughout the season, and Kanzig took big developmental steps. He was lauded for his IQ, his leadership at a young age, his amazing work ethic, and his footspeed vs size. He didn't just destroy guys along the boards or in front of the net, but he also stuffed a lot of zone entries and plays with his long reach, IQ and mobility. It just didn't work out, and people still complain about that pick without the background surrounding the pick (most importantly, the fact that they had scouted him intensively for a couple of years). I am sure Cammarata's name popped up as one of the guys that the Flames should have drafted instead (less than 10 picks after Kanzig). He was 5'7", but a wizard. 59GP, 38G 55A 93PTS in his draft year. He ended up playing exactly the same number of games as Kanzig did - zero. I am sure nobody would be bringing up his name at all as a 'waste of a pick'. It would have been thought of as a great attempt at an out-of-the-park homerun, even though had Kanzig developed into whom they thought he would, he would have been an absolute out of the park homerun himself. Imagine Regehr, but only bigger and much more mean and scary.



Hunter Smith is the other guy that really seems to be the poster child for the anti-size movement here. Like Kanzig, people just said: "The Flames wasted a pick on drafting a goon". Nope, that's not what it was. Again, the Flames were scouting this guy intensively. He got passed over in his draft year, but the Flames invited him to camp. There was a good chance that he would have gotten signed that year, but unfortunately, he was injured and couldn't come. The next year saw him have a 'break-out' year - he played in all situations - PK, PP and with top-line players, and he did well. Flames felt that they needed to take him with the pick they did. In the end, one only has to look at what Klapka is becoming to understand what the Flames saw in Hunter Smith. I am sure there are many other small skilled guys who were available at the Smith pick who also busted, and again, I would bet that nobody would have blinked an eye and probably would have just said it was an unfortunate miss, but good on the Flames for taking that swing. Mangiapane was also an overager taken by the Flames after experiencing a dramatic increase in points in his draft+1 year. Sometimes these over-agers work out simply because they were on teams with more depth and never got the right opportunities before.



Is prospect X the next Eric Lindros or Alexander Ovechkin? Or is he the next Mark McNeil?



Another great example, and another player that I really wanted the Flames to take back in the day - Ryan Murphy. Super slick defencemen, although undersized. Apparently he was also super-developed physically, just short. He was able to get to pucks quicker and do some of the things he was able to do because of his overly-developed physique. Some people saw it as a good thing (including me) by saying he was such a hard worker and already a mature pro at his young age. Contrast that with Hunter Shinkaruk - super slick player, but physically immature compared to his peers at the draft. Lots of 'room to grow'. What happened? He didn't grow. Everyone passed him. Sure, there were many stories out there about everything to do with this kid, and the Flames did pass on him (in hindsight, smartly), but then they went and traded for him (change of scenery trade), and in the end, he just didn't work out. I didn't want Shinkaruk. Turned out, they both busted. Maybe they both busted for the same reasons in spite of their differing sizes and physical development. Sometimes physical development doesn't have anything to do with it.



Sometimes these big guys need more time to 'grow into their bodies' and adjust with things like coordination of muscle-tone. Sometimes smaller guys simply peak earlier, but because they do, they sometimes get a developmental advantage by being given more opportunity earlier on. It is a fascinating discussion really.



I share your concerns Enoch. At the end of the day, this is an 18 year old draft, and therefore it is a crapshoot with low accuracy. Flames have been outstanding at finding players through the draft, and even as free agents (Giordano in the past, Klapka recently). They will miss, but I will always respect them for their swings. Kanzig and Smith were great home-run swings that missed. Gaudreau was a home-run attempt that hit.



I just really find everyone's story really interesting. I just get tired of the 'Kanzig and Smith picks were awful since they were both goons' lazy rationales. Plenty of in-depth articles and interviews around why the Flames drafted them at the time that people ignore, and held onto the 'stupid goon' opinions instead.



With some players, it is super easy to figure out that their size and skill combination will translate. There was no stopping Lindros in junior, and it was the exact same at the NHL level until the concussions stopped him. These are at the top of the draft. Everyone else has warts, and it takes a lot of experience - and sometimes many different sets of eyes, character checks, and the best possible development plan - to get these into the NHL as impact players. I just think that there are many over-sized players that provide a lot of help at the NHL level as there are undersized guys who do the same. Plenty of busts both way too.



If the Flames draft another 6'5"+ player, I will trust that they feel this player is going to be an impact player beyond being a 'goon'. I thought that the Parker Bell and Jaden LIpinski picks were both 'throw-away' picks at the time, but I came to see why the Flames ended up drafting these two. Still long-shots to make it really, but I am glad that they Flames have them in their organization. Hunter Laing is another guy that seemed like a bit of reach for me, but I kept an open-mind about him. There may be something good there - plenty of highlights this past season of him making high-skilled plays. There are often large players that I absolutely don't want the Flames to pick, as I also think they are getting by because of their increased size, but don't have enough in the way of additional tools or skills to make it work at the NHL level.



One guy that I would have loved to see evolve wold have been George Pelawa. What could have been with him. 6'3", but 245lbs of muscle. If that tragic event didn't happen, perhaps he would have been the guy that fans would remember and want the Flames to continue going for an occasional 'size is good' home-run hit where warranted. I bet he would have been something special.

Excellent write-up as usual, C4L! I really appreciate and enjoy your stuff!

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I’ll throw it out there again. Let’s say Schaefer goes 1 and whoever is at 2 offers you the pick for parekh. Do you take it and draft Misa? I’m starting to lean towards no

I don't think I would trade Parekh, but if I could get the 2nd overall, I might consider wolf, if I thought the 2nd overall was a bonafide 1st line center,

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I don't think I would trade Parekh, but if I could get the 2nd overall, I might consider wolf, if I thought the 2nd overall was a bonafide 1st line center,

You're insane.

Wolf is as untouchable as it gets.

[YyjFlames]

McKenzie posted a mini-update of his scouting survey with his top 16:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/matthew-schae...king-1.2299495

Schaefer still strong at 1, Misa at 2, but one scout has Misa going number 1 for positional need (must be Button), another scout has Frondell at 2.

Comments on McQueen are interesting: "none of our scouts surveyed said they would be comfortable taking McQueen where they currently rated him." This guy could really fall.

No other real surprises in the update.

[PizzaManTre]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

McKenzie posted a mini-update of his scouting survey with his top 16:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/matthew-schae...king-1.2299495

Schaefer still strong at 1, Misa at 2, but one scout has Misa going number 1 for positional need (must be Button), another scout has Frondell at 2.

Comments on McQueen are interesting: "none of our scouts surveyed said they would be comfortable taking McQueen where they currently rated him." This guy could really fall.

No other real surprises in the update.

If I'm Conroy and McQueen has fallen to the 8-12 range, I'm looking to package 18 and 23 to move up and get him. Not often a 6'5 right shot center with skill goes in that range. Would be risky with his injury history, but the way this org operates, it might be the only way to finally acquire that 1C.

[The Fonz]

I’d rather Reschny than McQueen at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if McQueen ends up getting surgery this summer and misses the majority of next season as well.

Don’t care how good you are. Missing basically both of your draft and your draft+1 seasons is likely to be problematic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

McKenzie posted a mini-update of his scouting survey with his top 16:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/matthew-schae...king-1.2299495

Schaefer still strong at 1, Misa at 2, but one scout has Misa going number 1 for positional need (must be Button), another scout has Frondell at 2.

Comments on McQueen are interesting: "none of our scouts surveyed said they would be comfortable taking McQueen where they currently rated him." This guy could really fall.

No other real surprises in the update.

The dream would be the best C available at 18, then have McQueen fall to the FLA pick. Walk away with 2 Cs in the 1st round, with the 2nd one being McQueen.

Unlikely of course, but: dare to dream!

[Lewis_D]

I'm all in on Reschny but I'm obviously biased as I've watched him a handful of times and like him because he plays for the Royals.

We didn't get Macklin last year, but as a consolation we can get the kid from Macklin.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

McKenzie posted a mini-update of his scouting survey with his top 16:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/matthew-schae...king-1.2299495

Schaefer still strong at 1, Misa at 2, but one scout has Misa going number 1 for positional need (must be Button), another scout has Frondell at 2.

Comments on McQueen are interesting: "none of our scouts surveyed said they would be comfortable taking McQueen where they currently rated him." This guy could really fall.

No other real surprises in the update.

No Reschny in Mckenzie’s top 16!

[Oleg Saprykin]

Team Reschny all the way, I've been hoping all year he is one of the picks. Seems to be picking up steam though, I hope he is available.

Seen him at the u17 worlds, coming into that there was all kinds of hype for him as a player to watch, but last year he seemed to have lost a little momentum. In my mind perfect upside type of pick that can get the flames a high end forward , has the pedigree.

[Snuffleupagus]

My top hopeful 1st round C's for the Flames

1- Misa
2- O'Brien
3- Desnoyers
4- Frondell
5- Reschny
6- Martin
7- Hagens
8- Bear
9- McQueen
10- Ryabkin
11- Nilson
12- Nesbitt

I'm confident we can get one but if somehow we can get two of these kids i'll be a happy camper.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

My top hopeful 1st round C's for the Flames

1- Misa
2- O'Brien
3- Desnoyers
4- Frondell
5- Reschny
6- Martin
7- Hagens
8- Bear
9- McQueen
10- Ryabkin
11- Nilson
12- Nesbitt

I'm confident we can get one but if somehow we can get two of these kids i'll be a happy camper.

I’m trying to get an idea of how these centers rank on different categories. Sandman - you’re probably the best to answer this but anyone with familiarity of these prospects could speak to it.

1. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on goal scoring ability?
2. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on playmaking ability?
3. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on puck-carrying/zone entries?
4. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on their defensive skills?
5. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on skating ability (speed and edgework)?
6. What would be the ranking order of these centers based on physicality?
7. What would be the ranking order of the centers based on their likelihood to develop into an NHL center (i.e. not be converted to wing at the NHL level)?

Should probably include Cootes and Horcoff in the group as well though. I think most lists have them in contention with this group of centers.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

My top hopeful 1st round C's for the Flames

1- Misa
2- O'Brien
3- Desnoyers
4- Frondell
5- Reschny
6- Martin
7- Hagens
8- Bear
9- McQueen
10- Ryabkin
11- Nilson
12- Nesbitt

I'm confident we can get one but if somehow we can get two of these kids i'll be a happy camper.

I assume you have Cootes,Murtagh,Gastrin,Horcoff,Moore,Mckinney, below this group?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Fan69

I assume you have Cootes,Murtagh,Gastrin,Horcoff,Moore,Mckinney, below this group?

Yes, that's my top 12, out of these 5 I like Mckinney the most but not ahead of the beast in Nesbitt, the others I'm not so sure will translate to NHL centers

[Svartsengi]

I haven't found any information as to why McQueen missed the final two playoff games for Brandon. His injury history is very concerning would leave it up to the NHL team doctors to assess if he is a risk worth taking. A team like Philadelphia with 7 picks in first 2 rounds would be a team positioned to take a gamble on his health.

[stemit14]

McQueen is such a tough call. His injuries are a concern. Plus, it is rare for these big centers to reach their potential. Every draft there is usually at least one 6’4” or 6’5” center that scouts say “skates well for his size” and “has all the tools to be a dominant center in the NHL” but they rarely seem to become anything more that 3rd/4th line players at best. Not sure why exactly. And ones that do reach their potential usually take longer to develop so it requires a lot of patience from coaches, management and fans.

Even the big, skilled centers that do develop into top six forwards somehow forget to chip the puck off the boards in the final minute of game 4 to secure a 3-1 lead in a playoff round which eventually leads to losing said playoff round. Sorry. Still working through my frustrations from round 1.

Not saying the flames shouldn’t draft McQueen with their pick. Might be worth the gamble at 18th overall.

[Sandman]

I’m not a doctor or anything, but Carter Bear is in the same boat as McQueen, IMO. Both should be in the top-15, or at least the top-20, but their injuries are really concerning.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’m not a doctor or anything, but Carter Bear is in the same boat as McQueen, IMO. Both should be in the top-15, or at least the top-20, but their injuries are really concerning.

Concerning yes but Bear had a fluke injury with a lacerated achilles and should recover 100%, McQueen on the other hand has spondylolysis, sometimes it's from a big jolt but if it's a back defect it's far more concerning.

Just call me Dr. Snuff