Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Goriders]

It’ll be very interesting to see what the legal judgement is at the end of the trial. The evidence sounds pretty damning.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Maraqopa

The athletic article above states

“One video showed Batherson, Howden and Cale Makar dancing to The Killers’ “Mr. Brightside” song.”

I thought Makar was not there? Perhaps this is a typo.

Edit. Missed the part where it said earlier date. Sorry.

It said "prior to". A different day or at the bar earlier in the evening that this took place? I'm not quite clear on that.

The video clips from a June evening in 2018, prior to the alleged incident at the Delta Armouries Hotel, are the first pieces of evidence presented in the Crown’s case against the five defendants.

[taxbuster]

Various players are listed as having been at the bar and witness to at least a portion of what transpired there (not necessarily later)....and they likely will be called to testify according to the CBC reporter following the story:

"Videos on his phone show many young men having fun in the crowded and lively bar. They were smiling at the camera and jumping gleefully on the dance floor. London police Det. Tiffany Waque, a witness at the trial, identified some of them as Batherson, Foote, Brett Howden and Cale Makar."

"Other men who now play in the NHL and appear in the videos include Maxime Comtois, who used to be with the Anaheim Ducks and Carolina Hurricanes, and Jake Bean who's with the Calgary Flames."

NONE of those are alleged to have been directly involved, but at a guess, may have seen the text messages or something similar?


---
On a personal comment:
Why none of the accused has stood up and said "I did this and I'm ashamed." is beyond my moral code by rather a long way. This stains them - whether they are found guilty or not - for life, IMO. this was not "boys being boys" (even if EM consented). It's piggish, and then some. Yes, I have step-daughters, a wife, and a mother.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Various players are listed as having been at the bar and witness to at least a portion of what transpired there (not necessarily later)....and they likely will be called to testify according to the CBC reporter following the story:

"Videos on his phone show many young men having fun in the crowded and lively bar. They were smiling at the camera and jumping gleefully on the dance floor. London police Det. Tiffany Waque, a witness at the trial, identified some of them as Batherson, Foote, Brett Howden and Cale Makar."

"Other men who now play in the NHL and appear in the videos include Maxime Comtois, who used to be with the Anaheim Ducks and Carolina Hurricanes, and Jake Bean who's with the Calgary Flames."

NONE of those are alleged to have been directly involved, but at a guess, may have seen the text messages or something similar?


---
On a personal comment:
Why none of the accused has stood up and said "I did this and I'm ashamed." is beyond my moral code by rather a long way. This stains them - whether they are found guilty or not - for life, IMO. this was not "boys being boys" (even if EM consented). It's piggish, and then some. Yes, I have step-daughters, a wife, and a mother.

"Sorry" or " I am Ashamed" is an admission of guilt, in the end that could be the difference in sentencing in magnitudes of years. That's why people save their apologies for after sentencing.

[VilleN]

Aside from the obvious, what bothers me about this case is that when I read about the allegations, I know that I grew up with guys who would've taken part in this rape. I'm sure most of you know guys like this. I think there are societal issues that cause some men to fall into this mindset about women... that they are there to be used for their pleasure. That it is funny or fun to humiliate a girl - to treat them like they are a 'slut' or a 'whore' - because that is all they are to them. They all have mothers, lots of them have sisters... I just can't get my head around the fact that so many men are like this. I'm sure amongst the 5 accused, one (Mcleod) was the ring leader, and maybe a couple of them felt pressure to be 'cool' and 'manly' and joined in for those reasons... and I know alcohol also played a part in why this happened. I hope with the availability of information, and the me too movement, these things will happen less. I know for me personally, I've really gained a better understanding of how a woman feels in the world, how it would feel to be vulnerable, and how consent isn't black or white when you are a woman with a man who could kill you with his bare hands - I've learned women by default have to walk around with a healthy fear of men - because of the differences in strength and aggression, and because women walk around every day knowing men who are much bigger and stronger than them want something that they have - and some men are willing to force them to give it them.
I used to work as a bartender, after work at around 2am I'd walk home with around $150-300 cash in my pocket. I knew if someone watched me leave the bar after my shift they would probably know I was carrying a decent amount of cash on me. I'd always walk home a little nervous, looking over my shoulder. It dawned on me that women must feel this all the time, to a much, much higher degree.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

"Sorry" or " I am Ashamed" is an admission of guilt, in the end that could be the difference in sentencing in magnitudes of years. That's why people save their apologies for after sentencing.

True. But I almost guarantee they were all given the option to plead guilty for less time.

Originally Posted by VilleN

Aside from the obvious, what bothers me about this case is that when I read about the allegations, I know that I grew up with guys who would've taken part in this rape. I'm sure most of you know guys like this. I think there are societal issues that cause some men to fall into this mindset about women...

Yup. And if it goes unpunished (again), it will just keep happening.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Coach

Yup. And if it goes unpunished (again), it will just keep happening.

I expect that even if the players are found not guilty, thus is a wakeup call of the all players everywhere.

None of these players will be playing in the NHL again even if found not guilty.

They will be punished even if they serve no jail time.

The hockey world will feel these players are very lucky to escape jail time.

This has, at the very least, opened up the hockey world's eyes.

A non-guilty verdict will not be carte blanche for this to keep happening.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by the cobra

i expect that even if the players are found not guilty, thus is a wakeup call of the all players everywhere.

none of these players will be playing in the nhl again even if found not guilty.

they will be punished even if they serve no jail time.

The hockey world will feel these players are very lucky to escape jail time.

This has, at the very least, opened up the hockey world's eyes.

A non-guilty verdict will not be carte blanche for this to keep happening.

??
E=ng

[Tbull8]

I would say with 100% confidence that the Oilers would have 0 shame trying to sign any or all of these guys if they're ruled to be "innocent". There were rumors of them trying to get Carter Hart just before all of this came out.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I would say with 100% confidence that the Oilers would have 0 shame trying to sign any or all of these guys if they're ruled to be "innocent". There were rumors of them trying to get Carter Hart just before all of this came out.

They will never be found innocent even in a court of law, they will be found not guilty.

I am hoping (perhaps against hope) that even the Oilers will see this as a terrible, terrible, thing to do.

You may well be right.

But of course, isn't playing for the Oilers even extra punishment? Maybe jail isn't so bad.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

"Sorry" or " I am Ashamed" is an admission of guilt, in the end that could be the difference in sentencing in magnitudes of years. That's why people save their apologies for after sentencing.

Yes - and that is the legal part. Be a man, admit it instead of making that poor woman be raped in court all over again.


The moral part is "I did it and I'm ashamed"...and THAT is what really makes a man. Owning up to your own sh*t.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Various players are listed as having been at the bar and witness to at least a portion of what transpired there (not necessarily later)....and they likely will be called to testify according to the CBC reporter following the story:

"Videos on his phone show many young men having fun in the crowded and lively bar. They were smiling at the camera and jumping gleefully on the dance floor. London police Det. Tiffany Waque, a witness at the trial, identified some of them as Batherson, Foote, Brett Howden and Cale Makar."

"Other men who now play in the NHL and appear in the videos include Maxime Comtois, who used to be with the Anaheim Ducks and Carolina Hurricanes, and Jake Bean who's with the Calgary Flames."

NONE of those are alleged to have been directly involved, but at a guess, may have seen the text messages or something similar?


---
On a personal comment:
Why none of the accused has stood up and said "I did this and I'm ashamed." is beyond my moral code by rather a long way. This stains them - whether they are found guilty or not - for life, IMO. this was not "boys being boys" (even if EM consented). It's piggish, and then some. Yes, I have step-daughters, a wife, and a mother.

I was looking at the CBC feed on this, here is the link to the live feed:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...yers-9.6742726


They shared a group chat in court (or will be) and it included 11 players. Batherson and Bean are the two players who shared the group chat with the police. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...=1746026748025


Can the other players have charges added if they're proven to be in the room or knew what was going on and tried to hide it? How likely is that to happen?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Buff

I was looking at the CBC feed on this, here is the link to the live feed:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...yers-9.6742726


They shared a group chat in court (or will be) and it included 11 players. Batherson and Bean are the two players who shared the group chat with the police. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...=1746026748025


Can the other players have charges added if they're proven to be in the room or knew what was going on and tried to hide it? How likely is that to happen?

Batherson remaining a Senator while they booted Formenton immediately has me looking for more on that as the guy might become a fan favourite of mine due to his actions (assuming, all were good of course).

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by Buff

Can the other players have charges added if they're proven to be in the room or knew what was going on and tried to hide it? How likely is that to happen?

I would imagine that if the standard for prosecution had been met, there would have already been charges. Authorities have had this recording long enough to build a case around it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Raddysh is testifying now. He is apparently playing dumb and saying he has no recollection of anything, but figures he was in the room for a very short period of time.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by Buff

I was looking at the CBC feed on this, here is the link to the live feed:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...yers-9.6742726


They shared a group chat in court (or will be) and it included 11 players. Batherson and Bean are the two players who shared the group chat with the police. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...=1746026748025


Can the other players have charges added if they're proven to be in the room or knew what was going on and tried to hide it? How likely is that to happen?

‘I don’t have any recollection,’ Raddysh testifies
Kate Dubinski
Raddysh says McLeod and Boris Katchouk came to his door and told him to come hang out. He went next door with them, to McLeod’s room.

Raddysh keeps saying he doesn’t remember anything.

He does recall McLeod and Katchouk were in the room and there was a woman there, but he doesn’t remember whether the woman was dressed or not. He remembers she was maybe on the bed.

“Sitting here, I’m not 100 per cent sure,” Raddysh says to many of the questions asked.

What 18 or 19 year old male doesn't remember walking into a room with a naked lady on the bed?

[FlamesAddiction]

Details of the text message are starting to come out. I won't post anything here because some of it is graphic. They do say that the group text message chain with the 11 players was started before the incident occurred, so that is why there could be people on it that didn't actually participate in the assault.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

"Sorry" or " I am Ashamed" is an admission of guilt, in the end that could be the difference in sentencing in magnitudes of years. That's why people save their apologies for after sentencing.

But the first one to flip gets the best deal, surely.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by GFG#1

What 18 or 19 year old male doesn't remember walking into a room with a naked lady on the bed?

What a slime ball. I wonder if "forgetting" everything will impact these guy's careers. Maybe they wind up in Edmonton.

If I'm an owner, I wouldn't want to be paying guys like that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

But the first one to flip gets the best deal, surely.

I can almost guarantee you that they don't completely understand the gravity of it. Like they knew it was wrong enough to warrant collaborating for a story, but not wrong enough that they deserve to be severely punished. I am sure part of them still feels justified and that not dissenting is the same as consenting.