Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

https://twitter.com/user/status/1915046804036747517

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Intergenerational trauma doesn't require active harm to occur.

And besides, the last residential schools are in living memory for a lot of people.

The conversation was about whether churches should, as of right now, still get charitable status, or if it should be removed. As in, are the activities churches currently undertake worthy of maintaining the benefits that charitable status provides. So this is irrelevant to what we were actually discussing.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm not sure the indigenous people would agree with this statement.

While not perfect, Christianity is the reason Western Civilization is what it is. Rule Based Law, a better than most attempt at equality, stability.

Could it be better? Yes of course. But you just have to look at the quality of life outside Western World to realize how much Christianity helped shape a generally peaceful and prosperous society.

I mean outside the Western World, Japan and Korea are fair and free countries, and both were heavily shaped by the Western World post WWII.

I don't even go to church, but I can see the on balance advantage the Christian religion has had on our quality of life. Unless your a anti-religion communist, in which case you have tons of examples of worse.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The conversation was about whether churches should, as of right now, still get charitable status, or if it should be removed. As in, are the activities churches currently undertake worthy of maintaining the benefits that charitable status provides. So this is irrelevant to what we were actually discussing.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Which churches are currently harming indigenous people, and how?

This was your question. It's not my fault you didn't like the answer.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

While not perfect, Christianity is the reason Western Civilization is what it is. Rule Based Law, a better than most attempt at equality, stability.

Could it be better? Yes of course. But you just have to look at the quality of life outside Western World to realize how much Christianity helped shape a generally peaceful and prosperous society.

I mean outside the Western World, Japan and Korea are fair and free countries, and both were heavily shaped by the Western World post WWII.

I don't even go to church, but I can see the on balance advantage the Christian religion has had on our quality of life. Unless your a anti-religion communist, in which case you have tons of examples of worse.

The basis of Western Civilization pre-dates Christianity by hundreds of years.

Christianity was just a s###ty application to an already existing model. Persecution, inquisitions, the crusades, genocide, and colonialism. A religion of law, prosperity, and peace.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Yamer

This was your question. It's not my fault you didn't like the answer.

First, it was a question in the context of a broader conversation. Second, you actually didn't answer - You dodged it by talking about things churches have done in the past, and the legacy of those past actions. The question was what they're currently doing to harm indigenous people, and again, it was posed that way because of what we were actually talking about.

Stop fishing for likes.

[ThePrince]

Religion is like Dave Ramsey's financial advice.

Yes, it helps some people who need help and structure to not make (or continue making) incredibly poor decisions. But when you actually look at what it's telling you to do and understand personal finance, it makes no sense and in most cases is actually objectively poor financial advice.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

While not perfect, Christianity is the reason Western Civilization is what it is. Rule Based Law, a better than most attempt at equality, stability.

Could it be better? Yes of course. But you just have to look at the quality of life outside Western World to realize how much Christianity helped shape a generally peaceful and prosperous society.

I mean outside the Western World, Japan and Korea are fair and free countries, and both were heavily shaped by the Western World post WWII.

I don't even go to church, but I can see the on balance advantage the Christian religion has had on our quality of life. Unless your a anti-religion communist, in which case you have tons of examples of worse.

Because Christianity did great when pushed onto those in Africa? Indigenous populations?

Maybe the rest of the world is the way it is because of colonization and the west pushing religion and western ideals where they didn't belong. Ever heard of White Man's Burden?

What an insane pro-colonization post in 2025.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

First, it was a question in the context of a broader conversation. Second, you actually didn't answer - You dodged it by talking about things churches have done in the past, and the legacy of those past actions. The question was what they're currently doing to harm indigenous people, and again, it was posed that way because of what we were actually talking about.

Stop fishing for likes.

Oh give me a break. What an asinine thing to tag on.

For all of that it was equally disingenuous a question that took away the hundreds of years damage the capital c Church did to indigenous people across Canada, of which all reverberates today and well into tomorrow. You knew exactly the point Monahammer was making.

Just because the modern Church isn't beating the Indian out of children in 2025 doesn't mean their presence doesn't hurt indigenous people today. I would think indigenous people would appreciate yesterday's harms being discussed in that "broader conversation".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

So on that, I have this ambition, where as soon as I get the 800M valuation on my one man startup, I am going to turn Pincher Creek into a new metropolis, starting with a university and a multiplex that is both an indoor six-flags-esque roller coaster, a key subway station, my startup's headquarters.

Laugh at me now, but i am going to turn the waterton area into a destination.

Too windy for roller coasters!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Yamer

The basis of Western Civilization pre-dates Christianity by hundreds of years.

Christianity was just a s###ty application to an already existing model. Persecution, inquisitions, the crusades, genocide, and colonialism. A religion of law, prosperity, and peace.

Google AI says:

While Christianity has undeniably influenced Western civilization, suggesting it's the sole foundation is an oversimplification. Western civilization is a complex tapestry woven from various threads, including ancient Greece and Rome, the Judeo-Christian traditions, the Renaissance, and the Scientific Revolution, each contributing to its unique character.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

While not perfect, Christianity is the reason Western Civilization is what it is. Rule Based Law, a better than most attempt at equality, stability.

Could it be better? Yes of course. But you just have to look at the quality of life outside Western World to realize how much Christianity helped shape a generally peaceful and prosperous society.

I mean outside the Western World, Japan and Korea are fair and free countries, and both were heavily shaped by the Western World post WWII.

I don't even go to church, but I can see the on balance advantage the Christian religion has had on our quality of life. Unless your a anti-religion communist, in which case you have tons of examples of worse.

Ah yes, a religion of peace.

Spoiler!

[TheIronMaiden]

Another example of peaceful and prosperous Christians at work

“Southern ministers had written the majority of all published defenses of slavery,” Jemison reminds us. For these ministers, slavery not only had divine sanction, it was a necessary part of Christianity. This was because slavery was defined as akin to a marriage: the “power of slave owners over slaves paralleled the power of husbands over wives and of parents over children.”

The father/master was supposed to be a benevolent and paternalistic overseer of all family (and property) members. After all, the New Testament’s “injunctions for slaves to obey their masters appeared alongside instructions for wives to obey their husbands.”

This hierarchy placed white men (including ministers) at the top, because slaves (and white women and children) were incapable of ordering themselves. Even northern theologians agreed on the necessary subordination of women: Charles Hodge, who held an influential position at Princeton Theological Seminary, wrote “We believe that the general good requires us to deprive the whole female sex of the right of self-government.”

https://daily.jstor.org/how-antebell...ified-slavery/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

While not perfect, Christianity is the reason Western Civilization is what it is. Rule Based Law, a better than most attempt at equality, stability.

Could it be better? Yes of course. But you just have to look at the quality of life outside Western World to realize how much Christianity helped shape a generally peaceful and prosperous society.

I mean outside the Western World, Japan and Korea are fair and free countries, and both were heavily shaped by the Western World post WWII.

I don't even go to church, but I can see the on balance advantage the Christian religion has had on our quality of life. Unless your a anti-religion communist, in which case you have tons of examples of worse.

Biggest dog-whistle post on this site?

At bare minimum, extremely ethnocentric.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Just because the modern Church isn't beating the Indian out of children in 2025 doesn't mean their presence doesn't hurt indigenous people today.

It sounds like what you're saying is that the modern Catholic Church (again, the original discussion, "Church" was standing in for "Church, Synagogue, Temple, Mosque, etc.", not the Catholics specifically) is continuing to harm indigenous people simply by existing, and that allegation is worth taking into account in determining whether or not it should continue to benefit from charitable status. If so, I do not agree that that should be a factor.

I don't really have a strong view about whether or not Canada should continue to provide preferential treatment to churches. I'm just saying that on balance, the activities that they conduct, today in 2025, probably provide a net benefit to the Canadian public overall.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I'm not sure the indigenous people would agree with this statement.

Almost half Canada’s indigenous population identifies as Christian, and almost a third (485,000) as Catholic. Around 40,000 people, mostly indigenous, attend the Lac Ste Anne pilgrimage in Northern Alberta every year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...erta-1.6502477

So they’d likely agree with that statement at about the same rate as the rest of Canadians.

[Drak]

Anti religion communist? Who the fk writes sh*t like that?


People are entitled to their religion and religious beliefs. I’m all for that. Just keep it out of government, don’t anttempt to impose it on the rest of us and knock off the hypocrisy and bs because MAGA does not follow the teachings of Christ.

[TorqueDog]

Guys guys guys, we are getting away from the whole point: we should force churches (ie: catch-all for all the religions) to fulfill the role of dealing with the homeless problem to maintain their charitable status because being shameless hucksters for magic thinking advancement of religion isn't a valid charitable purpose.

All this going back in time stuff is just muddying the waters, and -- at this rate -- I fully expect flamesfever to chime in with how abiogenesis is rooted in Christian theology or some such thing, at which point at least half of our heads will explode in disbelief.

[D as in David]

The issue is that religious organizations can obtain charitable status without having to prove that they are doing or will do charitable work.

[TheIronMaiden]

Western Civilization and Christianity at their best again. Especially when fighting anti Christian communists.

During the Holocaust and the decades that preceded it, Christian clergy often stressed the same themes as the Nazis, notably with respect to the Jews being “parasitic” capitalists exploiting Christians, as well as communists seeking to overthrow the governments and traditional Christian values of Europe (Passelecq and Suchecky 1997, pp. 123–36). We shall see that these clerics often also spoke of Jews in racial, as well as religious terms. Conversely, the Nazis often exploited traditional Christian themes, such as the diabolical nature of the Jew, the image of the Jew as “Christ-killer,” and the contrast between “carnal” (materialistic) Judaism and spiritual Christianity. In other words, the Nazis effectively exploited two millennia of Christian demonization of the Jew. Most scholars who have studied the role of the Christian churches during the Holocaust are well aware of most of these facts (Barnett 1992; Bergen 1996; Ericksen and Heschel 1999a; Kertzer 2001). Yet many comparative studies of religion and violence ignore the role played by Christian churches during the Holocaust—apparently on the assumption that the most horrific mass murder in human history was a purely secular phenomenon. In fact, some prominent scholars, including the best-selling authors Karen Armstrong and—incredibly—Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, go so far as to attribute the Shoah to the demise of religious values in Europe (Armstrong 2014; Sacks 2015)! This article is an attempt to correct these mistaken assumptions.

https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/9/1/26