The 2025 Offseason thread.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by madmike

I really just want them to integrate more young guys. Kuznetsov and Kerins both deserve a shot in my opinion. Maybe Solovyov too.

I don’t know what to do about Andersson. He was so bad this year. Maybe he was injured. But I wouldn’t want to sign him long term unless they know something we don’t. I also don’t think they’d get good value for him in a deal right now. Tough call.

I want to go back to the Andersson injury talk.

Why are we continuing to let players play through obviously detrimental injuries? Did our franchise learn absolutely nothing from the Monahan situation? If Andersson was hurt he should have been off the ice. Let players heal don't play them through injuries.

[dino7c]

Yeah some rando on youtube saying the Flames might sign so and so is no smoking gun...there is ZERO chance they were looking at that last offseason.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well first who the heck is that guy?
And no where, at least in the first few minutes (I'm not going to suffer through the entire video) does he actually say the Flames ARE interested in him. It is a purely hypothetical scenario (he even says that).

The only THN example I can find was from 2015. If you have a different one would like to see it.

If that's it, it's a pretty big leap to say the Flames had actual interest.

Yeah I have no idea who Mark Griffiths is, I was just showing that a quick google yields actual results on this if you're curious. Again, my recollection had nothing to do with a public source.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I want to go back to the Andersson injury talk.

Why are we continuing to let players play through obviously detrimental injuries? Did our franchise learn absolutely nothing from the Monahan situation? If Andersson was hurt he should have been off the ice. Let players heal don't play them through injuries.

Half the league is injured...every season when a team is eliminated we get a laundry list. If its an issue its not Flames specific, reality is guys want to play and teams want them to play.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I would give him next year to re-establish himself. I think there is a player there. Wouldn't sell low on him.

While I think there’s potential for Farabee to bounce back, I am getting concerned that his decline wasn’t just a matter of being in Tortorella’s doghouse. According to Flyers fans and media, Farabee hasn’t been the same since he had disc replacement surgery in 2022.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Half the league is injured...every season when a team is eliminated we get a laundry list. If its an issue its not Flames specific, reality is guys want to play and teams want them to play.

Really? Seems to me you complain weekly about teams using LTIR, so I am not sure how you would support both of these positions.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Really? Seems to me you complain weekly about teams using LTIR, so I am not sure how you would support both of these positions.

Not making much sense again

1. Teams abuse LTIR during the regular season, there is no debate here
2. Players play injured for every team...check the injury reports after teams are eliminated.

Like I don't even know what to say, both these things happen like its not even debatable.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Vladar is a UFA.

So he is. I glitched and thought he had a year remaining, when it's Wolf that has a year remaining.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I like Farabee. He had some glimpses here and there of being a real solid top 6 winger, scored a beauty vs. the Stars. Had some great shifts with Backlund and Coleman.

I think starting the season right from the get go at training camp will be huge for him, and Frost. I like both players and feel like we'll see more offense out of both of them next season.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not making much sense again

1. Teams abuse LTIR during the regular season, there is no debate here
2. Players play injured for every team...check the injury reports after teams are eliminated.

Like I don't even know what to say, both these things happen like its not even debatable.

You are correct, you continue not to make sense.

If every team operates like the flames in playing players through injury, as you say, then how are teams sitting players with injuries on LTIR abusing the system?

Or, if the abusers are trumping up injuries to have players sit longer, why are the flames conversely pushing players to play through injuries instead of abusing the same system?

Both these things can't be true. Yeah, players play through minor injuries all the time. Broken feet that make you obviously a pylon? Don't see many teams lugging those players around successfully.

Monahan's handling is the example. Plays through injury after injury with our club. Goes to Montreal. They shut him down after 30 or so games because of a new injury, and dont play him again until he's healed! Miraculously, Monahan comes back BETTER!

What's the timeline on a broken foot.. 2 months? We had guys arguing here that Rasmus was no better than a 4 point team difference over 2 months or so. That is an easy trade-off if he comes back as good as he was at beginning of season.

[Ashes]

Off-Season Wishlist [April]


1. Explore trade options for Andersson sooner than later, ideally he gets moved at the 2025 draft. Conroy looks for a pure future's deal and adds picks in the 25 and/or 26 draft.


2. Don't sign any long-term Free Agents this summer, only 1-year deals like the Mantha signing last year.


3. Offer a high salary 1-year deal to Gavrikov (LD, LH Shot, 29 Years Old, 6'3, 220lb) to pair with Parekh or Bru next year. Flip at next year's deadline with 50% retention. I'm sure some team will offer him more term, but Flames can offer him a lot of money for one year which some Russians seem to prefer. This one feels like a bit of a pipe dream, I'm sure LA would love to keep him.


4. Explore the market to see if anyone would trade for Bean or Miromanov. Try to offload them and replace with one of Kuznetsov/Solovyov/Grushnikov depending on training camp. I think Bru has had a fantastic first AHL season but could use another year personally, but who know how training camp goes.


5. Explore the market for Coleman and get a temperature check from his camp to see if he's open to moving on, as he isn't getting any younger and this team is still years away from contending. Possibly move him at next year's deadline if there's value there. Great soldier but this team needs all the picks we can get in all rounds of the draft now that we have Wolf and we aren't gonna be picking top-10 barring something very unexpected IMO.


6. Leave spots open in training camp for the kids pushing through.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah I have no idea who Mark Griffiths is, I was just showing that a quick google yields actual results on this if you're curious. Again, my recollection had nothing to do with a public source.

Well I can't find any reputable source and if there was actual interest/speculation it would have been discussed, to no end on here.

But I'll move on. It's clear that you were performing some mental gymnastics across many of your points to try and prove to us all "how right" you were about various things, with a very liberal and expansive definition of what "right" means.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I want to go back to the Andersson injury talk.

Why are we continuing to let players play through obviously detrimental injuries? Did our franchise learn absolutely nothing from the Monahan situation? If Andersson was hurt he should have been off the ice. Let players heal don't play them through injuries.

1. Every team, and most players have something nagging them before the end of the season

2. IQ and Timing is often just as important as skill and physical ability. The logic being Andersson at 80% is better than the next man up at 100%.

3. 9/10 times an NHL player who is dealing with an injury wants to keep playing and will hide the severity of that injury so that they can.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You are correct, you continue not to make sense.

If every team operates like the flames in playing players through injury, as you say, then how are teams sitting players with injuries on LTIR abusing the system?

Or, if the abusers are trumping up injuries to have players sit longer, why are the flames conversely pushing players to play through injuries instead of abusing the same system?

Both these things can't be true. Yeah, players play through minor injuries all the time. Broken feet that make you obviously a pylon? Don't see many teams lugging those players around successfully.

Monahan's handling is the example. Plays through injury after injury with our club. Goes to Montreal. They shut him down after 30 or so games because of a new injury, and dont play him again until he's healed! Miraculously, Monahan comes back BETTER!

What's the timeline on a broken foot.. 2 months? We had guys arguing here that Rasmus was no better than a 4 point team difference over 2 months or so. That is an easy trade-off if he comes back as good as he was at beginning of season.

Is this guy for real?

Players playing through injury and teams abusing LTIR can absolutely both be true. Like are you even serious or just trolling now?

I promise you as the season ends and teams are eliminated from the playoffs we will hear about guys with broken bones, needing surguries, ect.

We will also have miraculous recoveries just in time for game one of the playoffs.

Both will happen, 100% we don't need to debate it because it will happen

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You are correct, you continue not to make sense.

If every team operates like the flames in playing players through injury, as you say, then how are teams sitting players with injuries on LTIR abusing the system?

Both things can be true at the same time.

Players with injuries that they can play through, play through them.

AND players with injuries that they CANNOT play through, often requiring surgery, are held out of the lineup until the playoffs because the team can't reactivate them sooner without violating the cap.

Or, if the abusers are trumping up injuries to have players sit longer,

See, that's not what they're doing. They literally can't reactivate those players, because they spent the cap money on replacement players. After the trade deadline, they can't get rid of the replacement players, so they have to wait until the cap is lifted before they can reactivate the injured players. The benefit, of course, is that once they do reactivate those players, they have a roster they could never have legally used in the regular season.

This is a significant flaw in the LTIR system, any way you slice it. But it's a separate issue from players playing through injuries.

why are the flames conversely pushing players to play through injuries instead of abusing the same system?

Gee, maybe because a team that's $20 million below the cap has absolutely no POSSIBILITY of abusing the LTIR system, because they would get absolutely no benefit from using it in the first place?

Both these things can't be true. Yeah, players play through minor injuries all the time. Broken feet that make you obviously a pylon? Don't see many teams lugging those players around successfully.

It happens all the time. There are numerous stories of players who had broken bones and literally could not play without having the injury frozen before every game – but they played anyway. Players who couldn't put their own skates on without help because of injuries – but they played anyway.

Players are a lot less fungible than you think. A proven, quality NHLer (which Andersson is), even when functioning far below his capacity, is still better than most of the AHL players who could be called up to take his spot. The ‘replacement player’, in hockey, is a myth, because teams can't simply go out late in the season and hire players on the open market. They can only use the players they already have in the system, and most players in the minors are below replacement level.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Here are my predictions:

1. Flames attempt to sign andersson to a ludicrous contract extension. Fortunately for us, Andersson declines. Flames keep him until end of season anyways.
2. FLA-NJD Conference final means our picks are in the bottom 1/4 of the 1st. We get Jack Nesbitt and Malcolm Spence
3. The flames go hard after Bennett in the offseason, but end up a bridesmaid. Instead, we sign Ehlers to a 8 year contract.
4. Parekh starts on the bottom pairing. Sometimes sits for Hanley.
5. The flames start strong and fall back by christmas. Spend the rest of the season talking about how we're close to the playoffs and deserve to fight for the guys. Trade the lower of our 1sts before the trade deadline for a journeyman LD.
6. Miss Playoffs.

Imagine being this miserable as a fan.

[dino7c]

1. Oilers Kane has been ready to go for a while and even then they postponed his surgery to better align with the playoffs. Good to go game for one and they used his space at the deadline.

2. Oiler have been playing injured players in their lineup obviously, when they are eliminated we will hear about McDrai's broken everything and torn Zach Hymens

Like there you go, an example of both on the same damn team

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not all picks are created equal you are spinning here a bit

having 4 FIRSTS the next two drafts is pretty substantial. By your logic trade them for 8 FIFTHS and have more picks.

How many teams have 4 firsts the next two years? a couple maybe...some don't have any.

I went through the 2004-2018 drafts and assigned the follow to every player taken:

Elite
1st Liner
2nd Liner
Not top 2 lines or #1 goalie

Lots of good players taken that I did not assign in the top 3 categories.

End results have not a huge difference in picks 6-10 vs 11-20. Really if you aren't picking top 5, a 1st anywhere in the rest of the round are close in value.

Things fall off fast after the 1st and top 8 picks in the 2nd vs the rest of the 2nd, vs every other round is very similar.

People may not agree with my % but this is how it ened up.

1OV - 46.67% Elite - 80% 1st liner - 6.67% Bust
2OV - 33.33% Elite - 60% 1st liner - 20% Bust
3OV - 13.33% Elite - 33.33% 1st liner - 53.33% Bust
4OV - 13.33% Elite - 33.33% 1st liner - 37.50% Bust
5OV - 6.67% Elite - 33.33% 1st Liner - 40% Bust
6-10 OV - 2.67% Elite - 13.33% 1st Liner - 61.33% Bust
11-20 OV - 2% Elite - 9.33% 1st Liner - 78% Bust
21-30/31 = 1.32% Elite - 5.96% 1st Liner - 83.44% Bust
Top 8 2nd Round - 0 Elite - 1.67% 1st Liner 92.50% Bust
Rest of 2nd - 0.6% Elite - 0.91% 1st Liner - 92.45% Bust
3rd - 0.89% Elite - 1.77% 1st Liner - 95.79% Bust
4th - 0% Elite - 1.11% 1st Liner - 97.34% Bust
5th - 0.44% Elite - 0.89% 1st Liner - 97.78% Bust
6th = 0% Elite - 0.44% 1st liner - 99.11% Bust
7th = 0% Elite - 0.22% 1st Liner - 99.56% Bust

6-10 vs 11-20 favors 6-10, but the difference isn't that much. Winning and having young players play well and gain experience is more valuable than picking top 10, unless you pick top 5 and then it's worth losing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I want to go back to the Andersson injury talk.

Why are we continuing to let players play through obviously detrimental injuries? Did our franchise learn absolutely nothing from the Monahan situation? If Andersson was hurt he should have been off the ice. Let players heal don't play them through injuries.

A broken foot is an injury that you hear players play through all the time. Because it doesn't make the injury worse and it can be gutted out.

The question then is - is a replacement better than Anderson at, for argument sake, 80% effectiveness. None of the roster D fit that descirption. No doubt you say Parekh would be but there's no evidence to support that because there's no body of NHL work.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Imagine being this miserable as a fan.

I get being upset and not getting a high pick but the Flames did nothing this season besides keeping Andersson that helped keep them out of the bottom ten. So far Conroy has been about age appropriate signings at reasonable contracts. If he sticks to that then there won’t be much to complain about