Accounting and Taxes Thread

[Fuzz]

Sure, today. But I don't think it's too far off(decade?).

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The acronym CRAPlus was right there man…

Hey I'm trying not to get audited.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by woob

These are the things AI should be used for. Do away with 80% of the CRA work force and implement AI. But then again, I don't think the government, or whatever company they hire to implement AI, could do it in a way that wouldn't wind up with an entire debacle and resulting months of hearings on how much money was wasted and how terrible the system is.

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd sooner watch a Terminator hunt and peck at a keyboard doing taxes than blindly trust whatever BS AI CRA manages to cobble together.

A human is still better.

I have been involved in 3 automated pilot projects over the past 5 years and they've all sucked.

Carney has created a Department of Efficiency and has talked a lot about AI and increasing it's role. Treasury President, Anita Anand, has also talked about implementing AI in the public service.

Maybe we'll see some benefits in five or ten years.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, today. But I don't think it's too far off(decade?).

Every single time I have seen people try and automate this it has resulted in nothing less than an absolutely unmitigated disaster.

And I'm even a proponent of it! If it is really simple, there should be a simple solution.

But by and large it just doesnt work. People tend to think: "Aw, the Accountants just dont want their jobs automated!"

There is an element of truth to that, but not one that I really subscribe to. I do feel that simple returns and seniors and such should have a free and simple option.

I just havent been convinced of a realistic solution yet.

[Slava]

I don't even think it has to be AI and automated like that. The UK has a filing system similar to what I want to see here, so it can obviously be done.

[Shazam]

What does Claude say?

Most countries around the world have some form of tax reporting requirements, but they vary significantly in who must file returns and under what circumstances. Here's an overview:
Countries where most citizens must file tax returns:

United States
Canada
Australia
Mexico
Brazil
Italy
Spain

Countries with automated systems where many citizens don't need to file:

UK (PAYE system for employees)
Denmark (pre-filled returns)
Sweden (pre-filled returns)
Norway (automated system)
Finland (pre-filled returns)
Estonia (digital pre-filled returns)
Netherlands (pre-filled returns)

Some countries like Japan and Germany have withholding systems where employees below certain income thresholds or with simple tax situations don't need to file. Other countries like Singapore have "no-filing" service programs for eligible taxpayers with straightforward financial situations.
The specific filing requirements depend on factors like:

Income level
Sources of income (employment vs. self-employment)
Residency status
Special deductions or credits being claimed

It's worth noting that even in countries with automated systems, citizens typically need to file returns if they have multiple income sources, investment income, self-employment income, or wish to claim certain deductions.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't even think it has to be AI and automated like that. The UK has a filing system similar to what I want to see here, so it can obviously be done.

I'm not very familiar with the intricacies of the UK's system, but I look at ours and...

Yeah, you can auto-populate slips. When it works.

But there are so many tiny little things that would make that process fail. Donations, medical, un-posted investments, RRSP contributions depend on institution, I could go on and on.

You want to deduct the fees you pay your accountant or financial advisors for your investments? Not posted. Fail.

It would take a fundamental re-structuring of our entire tax system by people who aren't complete idiots.

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by Locke

It would take a fundamental re-structuring of our entire tax system by people who aren't complete idiots.

I can only wish they would re-structure our god awful tax system. Just the sheer size of the Income Tax Act is enough to put anyone off taxes for good.

Unfortunately CRA hasn't been able to get away from the ship of fools thing since forever so I don't hold out much hope. Although could AI be any worse than dealing with CRA?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’ve been using free software that autofills the bulk of my slips every year for most of the past decade, if not longer.

Never had an issue. Don’t know anyone who has. On a bad year I have to input most of the forms myself, which is like an elementary school exercise in data entry. On a good year I’m essentially just reviewing everything for accuracy, which is not much different than what Slava is suggesting.

This is not a complicated process.

I use Turbo Tax, have been for years and never had an issue. Until this year. Most forms were auto populated after getting pulled from the CRA website, a couple had to be entered by hand. And now for the first time ever my return is continually being rejected by Netfile due to a known software issue in the CRA side of things. No estimated time for it to be rectified so I'm stuck with either filing my paper/mail or just not reporting the boxes on my T3 that are causing issues. And hope I don't get audited. Or just wait a few more weeks and see if the issue is resolved, I get a refund so it's my own money I have to wait longer for.

[RandyHolt]

If the T3 issue is capital gains related, this year you can sometimes add or subtract a penny from the boxes to get the T3 to balance and then file the return.

I've had to do this with some T5013's this year in order to get CRA to accept them because the pre June capital gains and post June capital gains end up higher or lower than the total capital gains with rounding issues.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SilverKast

I can only wish they would re-structure our god awful tax system. Just the sheer size of the Income Tax Act is enough to put anyone off taxes for good.

Unfortunately CRA hasn't been able to get away from the ship of fools thing since forever so I don't hold out much hope. Although could AI be any worse than dealing with CRA?

1. The size of that document is outrageous. Its essentially a bludgeoning device in book-form.

2. I want a Terminator movie where CRA has to fight off SkyNet for Global Tax Superiority. I think I'd fight for SkyNet.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by RandyHolt

If the T3 issue is capital gains related, this year you can sometimes add or subtract a penny from the boxes to get the T3 to balance and then file the return.

I've had to do this with some T5013's this year in order to get CRA to accept them because the pre June capital gains and post June capital gains end up higher or lower than the total capital gains with rounding issues.

yeah, that's the issue. A whole $135 worth and it's holding me up from filing. I tried rounding up as suggested but did so to both boxes. Maybe I'll try adjusting only one and seeing if I can force the calculation.

[kipperiggy]

Apr 15th and I haven't even started my own taxes, I'm like a doctor that refuses to go to the doctor.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Apr 15th and I haven't even started my own taxes, I'm like a doctor that refuses to go to the doctor.

You're the worst. Just the worst.

You are bad and you should feel bad for being so bad.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't even think it has to be AI and automated like that. The UK has a filing system similar to what I want to see here, so it can obviously be done.

That’s the thing. This exists in countries all over the world and third party systems effectively accomplishing the same thing are used successfully in countries where it doesn’t. This isn’t impossible, or even difficult, it’s reality in progress and inevitable.

We’re not talking about advanced AI or automation here either, like you said. And I get it, people want to bring up how it doesn’t work for this form or that form, or how sometimes there’s X problem… but that’s because the system doesn’t even exist.

Think about it, the system doesn’t exist/isn’t set up this way and yet the vast majority of people are already able to do it this way using third party systems connected with the outdated system and many already are. That should be a very clear signal that this is not difficult, and focusing on the edge cases and why it doesn’t work perfectly today is just living in denial.

Everything already exists to make it work, it’s not going to be long before someone just puts it all together.

[DoubleF]

Ba ha ha ha ha!

Reports of a new type of non-existent slip popping up in MyCRA in the last few days. A second identical slip is showing up in MyCRA. When you auto fill, you may need to confirm and get rid of duplicate phantom slips.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Ba ha ha ha ha!

Reports of a new type of non-existent slip popping up in MyCRA in the last few days. A second identical slip is showing up in MyCRA. When you auto fill, you may need to confirm and get rid of duplicate phantom slips.

Thats new? I've been dealing with that BS all year so far.

This....man, this is the bull#### that CRA doesnt understand! If you tell people that their slips havent been received do know what the instinctive reaction is? They re-submit them.

So now people get two identical slips so their income from that source doubles. Then CRA lose their goddamned minds, matching goes bat#### and then it cant be fixed until 3 different entities get their goddamned acts together and sort it out.

Its ridiculous.

The last call I got from matching?

"We need you to fix this and sort this out."

Nope.

Its your program. Its your screwup. You fix it. I cant in good conscience bill a client for something that requires my work but was not my or their fault.

You get paid by the hour. Now. Hop, hop little bunny. Your fault, your problem, you fix it. Dont call me again.

Yeah. And file taxes for the population at large...that'll go real well I'm sure. You cant handle a simple slip.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Ba ha ha ha ha!

Reports of a new type of non-existent slip popping up in MyCRA in the last few days. A second identical slip is showing up in MyCRA. When you auto fill, you may need to confirm and get rid of duplicate phantom slips.

The gift that keeps on giving.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

We should take a regressive approach with more things. Do you like electricity? Well today we’re gonna build a hand crank generator barely capable of illuminating a single lightbulb.

Up after electricity will be veal cutlets.

Don’t get me started on all the automation features on cars. Ban automatics transmissions.

But that aside I think there are civics issues when people don’t understand how taxation works. For example the number of people that don’t understand how a marginal bracket works and instead think they lose money going into a new tax braket is significant.

[Shazam]

And most people's finances are a mess, most people don't know how transfer payments work, most people have very little money saved up and think that an RRSP is a type of investment. Next thing you'll tell me people know how bond ETFs work.