[PGT] Flames lose 4-3 in OT

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah at this point the Flames are Joe Pesci in the grave with the dirt coming down hot and heavy.

The pessimist in me sees a team that's missed the playoffs three straight years and has Parehk to show for it and likely two picks in the late teens or early 20's this year.

Coronato and Wolf both look like really good future pieces, and to me Zary is a decent piece but more 4 to 6 forward material. Klapka could be intriguing, but more of a support part. So in a way...you are waiting for the 2026 draft as your chance to start adding a top line talent to a group sorely lacking and it might be a decade until this team makes the playoffs again at this pace.

The team generally played hard, but they lacked the horses to really play with better teams. Until they're willing to start trading more veterans with term left on their contracts it's going to be a really long rebuild with limited upside.

My biggest concern with the near miss is now what?

Everything suggests the franchise's focus is get into the playoffs at all cost, anything can happen.

Missing by a few points, top prospect in the wings, you could squint and convince yourself to just go and add in free agency, make a trade or two, and we're a playoff team.

This will be the biggest test to the merit and ownership buy-in of Conroy's plan. What's the direction they're taking with Rasmus? Will they stick to their adding players under 25, or will they be big players in free agency to improve the roster now? Are they willing to move any other veterans (Coleman) to create space for younger players in the organization?

It's going to be a fascinating off-season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

My biggest concern with the near miss is now what?

Everything suggests the franchise's focus is get into the playoffs at all cost, anything can happen.

Missing by a few points, top prospect in the wings, you could squint and convince yourself to just go and add in free agency, make a trade or two, and we're a playoff team.

This will be the biggest test to the merit and ownership buy-in of Conroy's plan. What's the direction they're taking with Rasmus? Will they stick to their adding players under 25, or will they be big players in free agency to improve the roster now? Are they willing to move any other veterans (Coleman) to create space for younger players in the organization?

It's going to be a fascinating off-season.

Everything?

What about that $20M in cap space left on the table for the whole season?

Or not acquiring any help at the deadline despite being in a playoff spot?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

How do you figure that? A swap would mean we would be getting a pick in return wouldn’t it? Either way we were losing a draft pick, now we have to lose our best pick on the year.

They entered the season with 2 first rounders. Just a matter of which ones. That hasn't changed based on them making or missing the playoffs.

You said: "Missing the playoffs & losing the first rounder was a fumble on his part "

He didn't lose a pick. It was already gone.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

After dealing a third of his team the previous year?

Come on ...

He set prices and they weren't met.
He honoured no trade clauses.

Plenty to be upset about in this world without fabricating new ones.

Ahh I was probably too harsh in my wording there, but I do question Conroy a little more now than I did prior to this years trade deadline. His inaction definitely wavered my confidence in him. That’s more what I actually think.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They entered the season with 2 first rounders. Just a matter of which ones. That hasn't changed based on them making or missing the playoffs.

You said: "Missing the playoffs & losing the first rounder was a fumble on his part "

He didn't lose a pick. It was already gone.

I should have said missing the playoffs and losing OUR first rounder was a fumble on his part. It still wasn’t a pick swap as you said because we did not receive a pick.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

My biggest concern with the near miss is now what?

Everything suggests the franchise's focus is get into the playoffs at all cost, anything can happen.

Missing by a few points, top prospect in the wings, you could squint and convince yourself to just go and add in free agency, make a trade or two, and we're a playoff team.

This will be the biggest test to the merit and ownership buy-in of Conroy's plan. What's the direction they're taking with Rasmus? Will they stick to their adding players under 25, or will they be big players in free agency to improve the roster now? Are they willing to move any other veterans (Coleman) to create space for younger players in the organization?

It's going to be a fascinating off-season.

In what world has the flames shown they're going all in for the playoffs this season?

They literally handed the keys to a rookie goalie and said run with it and he did.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Ahh I was probably too harsh in my wording there, but I do question Conroy a little more now than I did prior to this years trade deadline. His inaction definitely wavered my confidence in him. That’s more what I actually think.

I know you're not suggesting activity trumps sound transactions, but it almost comes across that way when you don't know what was on the table from other teams.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That actually doesn’t make the point you think it makes, using your thought process here we could have kept our first rounder and Monahan (without kadri) and be in (IMO) a way better position to be in than where the team sits right now.

I think the Monahan to MTL trade was awful from Treliving, and Conroy did no favours this year with his inaction at the deadline. That inaction from Conny makes me think he lacks direction or the fortitude to execute it.

Nah, it makes exactly the point I want to make. I also disliked the Kadri sequence the day it happened but Monahan’s place in that asset sequence for the Flames ended when his contract did. Just as likely that the Flames keep their first but weren’t able to re-sign him.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I should have said missing the playoffs and losing OUR first rounder was a fumble on his part. It still wasn’t a pick swap as you said because we did not receive a pick.

I don't think enough focus is put on Craig mitigating the risk of exactly what is happening this year by ensuring he had two other first round picks. He couldn't fix what Treliving had done. But, he could mitigate the risk. And he did. He gets huge props from me and confidence in what he does for that.

He also mitigated by taking the team down to the second lowest cap hit in the league to help with getting to the top 10 loophole. That mitigation move just didn't work out.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That actually doesn’t make the point you think it makes, using your thought process here we could have kept our first rounder and Monahan (without kadri) and be in (IMO) a way better position to be in than where the team sits right now.

I think the Monahan to MTL trade was awful from Treliving, and Conroy did no favours this year with his inaction at the deadline. That inaction from Conny makes me think he lacks direction or the fortitude to execute it.

Really? I kind of get the opposite impression.

He shuffled the ne'er-do-wells out the door, created an environment of belonging and belief, rode the horses that brought him there and hoarded assets while rewarding effort.

Even the most optimistic of people probably thought the Flames in the playoffs was a long-shot, why spend money on a long-shot when the guys that got you within touching distance of it are already right there?

Furthermore...Conroy clearly trusts his Scouting Staff. He is happy to make picks, regardless of where they are.

As for fortitude? I agree with you. I thought Conny was too chummy with some of the guys and ergo I thought he was going to make some bad decisions. He proved me wrong.

"Here is what I think is a fair offer."

Player: "I want more."

"Cool. Theres the door. It'll hit ya on the way out."

And I respect that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

I don't think enough focus is put on Craig mitigating the risk of exactly what is happening this year by ensuring he had two other first round picks. He couldn't fix what Treliving had done. But, he could mitigate the risk. And he did. He gets huge props from me and confidence in what he does for that.

He also mitigated by taking the team down to the second lowest cap hit in the league to help with getting to the top 10 loophole. That mitigation move just didn't work out.

It seems like the POV is that at the deadline he should have done more to either increase the odds of making the playoffs or getting into the top 10. I just don't think that's practical. I'm glad they didn't spend assets to try and get in, and I don't think it's worth making deals just to try and fall in the top 10.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I know you're not suggesting activity trumps sound transactions, but it almost comes across that way when you don't know what was on the table from other teams.

I can see how that would be inferred, but it’s not true. Sort of like I know you don’t have blind faith in Conroy, but without knowing trade offers it could seem like you do from my stance. The actual truth probably falls somewhere in between our opinions. My opinion is more correct however, my signature proves it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I can see how that would be inferred, but it’s not true. Sort of like I know you don’t have blind faith in Conroy, but without knowing trade offers it could seem like you do from my stance. The actual truth probably falls somewhere in between our opinions. My opinion is more correct however, my signature proves it.

I'd argue the results of other trades including two with term left in Toffoli and Markstrom suggest he can set a market and not blink when his price isn't met.

[Rhett44]

I have more confidence in Conroy than Treliving to right the ship.

But I don't know how you can see us try to overpay Lindholm and Hanifin and be very confident in the direction going forward. We just got lucky they both said no. Both contracts would have been a disaster.

I blame ownership more than management though. It's the sneak in and anything can happen mentality that annoys me. Especially when there are rumors we are going to be going for big players at free agency. We need to be tanking next year and going for an elite level talent, not over paying free agents.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I have more confidence in Conroy than Treliving to right the ship.

But I don't know how you can see us try to overpay Lindholm and Hanifin and be very confident in the direction going forward. We just got lucky they both said no. Both contracts would have been a disaster.

I blame ownership more than management though. It's the sneak in and anything can happen mentality that annoys me. Especially when there are rumors we are going to be going for big players at free agency. We need to be tanking, not over paying free agents.

But he didn't sign them.
He tried. And I think the Hanifin deal is perfectly defendable.

But how long are you going to criticize him for something that did not happen ? Another year? 2 years? Longer? How long do you continue to focus on something that didn't even happen?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I have more confidence in Conroy than Treliving to right the ship.

But I don't know how you can see us try to overpay Lindholm and Hanifin and be very confident in the direction going forward. We just got lucky they both said no. Both contracts would have been a disaster.

I blame ownership more than management though. It's the sneak in and anything can happen mentality that annoys me. Especially when there are rumors we are going to be going for big players at free agency. We need to be tanking next year and going for an elite level talent, not over paying free agents.

Trade your starting goaltender, rely on two young goalies and 2 guaranteed NHL defensemen and leave $20M cap space on the table ... then sit in a playoff spot and the deadline and don't add.

All while expecting to sneak in?

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But he didn't sign them.
He tried.

Does that not scare you?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Does that not scare you?

No. Not really.

Conroy offered them what he felt was a fair deal. They disagreed. Then he showed them the door and acquired assets instead and replaced them in the lineup with kids.

[dammage79]

I think there warrants some concern about how it all went down last year in terms of re-signing Lindholm or Hanifin.

conversely, if I was GM I'd also would have tried to keep Hanifin In retrospect. LD was a pretty significant point of weakness this year outside of Bahl being much better than anticipated.

Hanifin-Andersson
Bahl-Weegs
Hanley/Bean/Solovyov-Pachal

That might have been the difference between where they are now and 6-12 points better in the standings.

Lindholm was gone no matter what, and so was Hanifin, as FAs they had the power and wanted to leave so Craig did his job.

But I don't if there should be blow back to those that think the mandate for Conroy was to keep those players if he could. Because they tried.

Anyways, the past is the past, now we wait to see how Craig builds this thing up with the pieces he has.

Don't be surprised if they dancing around the top end of the FA pool this offseason. I think he will be instructed to by his superiors.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by agulati

They need 3 points.

They have 3 games remaining and we have 4. We can get up to 96 mathematically. They are sitting at 93 points.

LOL - I was pissed and, well...pissed. Thought we were down to a tragic number of 1 point...realized this am that I was wrong. Better, but still a helluva challenge.