2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Maybe go back and read again.. I haven't disparaged Bahl at all, I wasn't even talking about him. I think he's been terrific this year.

I was talking about the "200 foot players" on this team over the past 20 years who haven't helped us win more than 2 playoff rounds.

How exactly did that sound like I was crapping on Kevin freaking Bahl who's been here less than 80 games? Ah well whatever fits the script I guess.

Follow your own advice.

Bahl was downplayed by a poster and I responded. Was never referring to you specifically at any point.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Prust as well? Brodie. Bouma. Ferland.

Slim pickings though. The 05 & 06 drafts were disasters.

04 was bad as well. He spent a bunch of picks, and I get it, but we traded back when Travis Zajac was on the board to pick his linemate that was carried by him in Kris Chucko. Just a terrible pick especially trading back to take a winger over a C.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by looooob

been twice. it's awesome as is the area around Fenway. fun on a different day to watch a bit of the game through the outfield wall at the Bleacher Bar. Fenway tour completes the experience


highly recommend (if or when anyone feels up for their next US leisure trip)

I've been there twice as well.

Great park!

Also have old Yankee Stadium for a playoff game, and a Jays game on my list (walk off Yankee win).

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Who were our most successful picks from that run? Nystrom, Dion, and Backs?

yeah don't think Nystrom was his watch. clearly I still look back with dismay at the Sutter drafting era, but if Brodie can get there , actually 3 1000 game players isn't that bad a haul- they only drafted once inside the top 20 picks


the problems were mostly the usual stories


1. Team got unexpectedly too successful too quickly post 2004- not enough premium picks and gave picks away when system wasn't deep enough
2. Over prioritization of a single player type (or location)


coupled with
3. didn't get enough out of the deep 2003 draft-

4. 05/06 was a total waste. when the GMs kid is the best pick over 2 years that's a problem

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Who were our most successful picks from that run? Nystrom, Dion, and Backs?

TJ Brodie as well. I'd say Phaneuf was a bit of a gimme.

To be fair, the Flames next best pick after that #9 Phaneuf, was #23, so they didn't have the high end picks. The picks the Flames did pick very much reflect Sutter's ideals though. Almost all big but low skilled players.

In 2010/11, the Flames were the tallest team in the league:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/leagu...tats/2010-2011

...didn't make the playoffs that year....or the year before...or for the 3 years after that. But they had truculence!

They didn't actually make the playoffs again, until the not so big Johnny Gaudreau (drafted in 2011 the year after Sutter left) dragged them there.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've been there twice as well.

Great park!

Also have old Yankee Stadium for a playoff game, and a Jays game on my list (walk off Yankee win).

I saw David Wells pitch wearing Babe Ruth's hat at 'old Yankee stadium'


Wells Celebrates the Babe's Return, but Cleveland Provides the Fireworks - The New York Times


(this was part of a random, not intended to be a baseball trip- but over the course of 2 weeks saw 3 games all of some significance- the Wells/Ruth hat game, Pat Hentgen (reigning Cy Young Winner) and Pedro (about to be Cy young winner) go head to head at Skydome - expos win 2-1 with a Vladdy Sr homer, and then a game in Montreal where they retired Dawson's jersey

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I’m not the biggest baseball fan, but the Red Sox are my team, and I’ve always dreamed of watching a game at Fenway. Have you been there?

No, it's also my dream haha. Road trip?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by blankall

TJ Brodie as well. I'd say Phaneuf was a bit of a gimme.

To be fair, the Flames next best pick after that #9 Phaneuf, was #23, so they didn't have the high end picks. The picks the Flames did pick very much reflect Sutter's ideals though. Almost all big but low skilled players.

In 2010/11, the Flames were the tallest team in the league:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/leagu...tats/2010-2011

...didn't make the playoffs that year....or the year before...or for the 3 years after that. But they had truculence!

They didn't actually make the playoffs again, until the not so big Johnny Gaudreau (drafted in 2011 the year after Sutter left) dragged them there.

Gaudreau was touchy as well. Lots of angst among Flames fans after Burke was publicly talking about his size and proclaiming that Flames fans want black and blue hockey after firing Feaster. Thankfully it worked out for us.

Burke always thought the blueprint was his Ducks team, well not every team can have 4 hall of fame players at the same time.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Burke always thought the blueprint was his Ducks team, well not every team can have 4 hall of fame players at the same time.

When you have Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermayer and Francois Beauchemin, you can afford to have Joe DiPenta and Kent Huskins on your blueline.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ped

When you have Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermayer and Francois Beauchemin, you can afford to have Joe DiPenta and Kent Huskins on your blueline.

Pretty underrated player for a while with all the stars on that Ducks team.

Remember his fight with Iggy and caught him off guard being a lefty.

[savardandjokinen]

Isaac Howard is going back to college for his fourth year. First rounder by the lightning and was the best player in college this year and is a Hobey finalist. Not often you see a player of his calibre play their fourth year. Wonder if he is the next big college free agent a year and a bit from now

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think a lot of the Sutter as GM comments just emphasize the negatives and unfairly attribute some of those failures onto him, while completely forgetting about his successes.


I try to think of it in this way: If I was hired as a GM, what would I do? I would probably want to surround myself with people who I know I can trust - assistant GMs, coaches and scouts. Tough thing to do as a first time GM, right? No money for an assistant GM. Promotes his assistant to head coach. Started to build the scouting and development program.



The last one is where he always gets crucified for, but should he have been? Maybe, but not to the extent that I always read on here. When he started, I believe Todd Button was the only full time scout. There was one part-time scout on the payroll. Development team? How about a shared AHL team with the Hurricanes (IIRC)? That's a pretty hard situation to cut your teeth on.


Yeah, drafting and development was abysmal early on. However, did it remain completely so? I would argue that drafting and development increased throughout his tenure. You would be hard-pressed to formulate an argument against it. It is this 'arc' that is most important to me. Was a GM pushing this team in the right direction within that area, or was he pushing it along in the wrong direction? Sutter was definitely pushing it in the right direction.


Was it the '04 run or the rising Canadian dollar that led to the owners being more willing to spend on the team (in particular, the scouting department, as well as starting a new AHL organization and hiring staff and development personnel)? I would say it was probably both. Ticket prices and revenues drastically increased thanks to the success of the run, and he made a lot of moves as a GM getting the team to that point.



Sutter took this team to a phantom goal away from winning a cup as a GM/coach. How that continues to get disparaged at every turn is sort of funny to me. How Treliving gets rated higher is amazing to me, as his teams were never able to get out of the 2nd round. With respect to the drafting and development, I would argue that this organization started becoming a much better organization in that area under Sutter. When Feaster came in and pushed Sutter out, I would argue that he had the benefit of having a strong scouting department in place - one that Sutter built (with Todd Button of course).


Yes, things were face-palm poor in Sutter's 2nd last year - that was a crazy bad year in so many respects, and the start of the 'unsteadiness' that Burke was then hired to fix (as Feaster took that ball and ran with it, unfortunately). I still don't see how it ended as reason enough to erase the tremendous good - including in the scouting and development aspects - he was responsible for. It was time for him to move on as a GM, and it was clear.



I still think that he should have been - even with hindsight - a much more appreciated GM. That '04 run really helped to propel this organization forward, inspired an entire new generation of fans, and gave us all some of the best memories of the last 30 years as Flames' fans. For that, he will always have my respect, and with it, a more thoughtful look at his tenure as a whole, from top down and from start to finish.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I also think it's not a certainty that they won't get high picks. I can easily see this team slipping back into a high pick next year, even if Wolf plays at a high level.

Low talent teams that overachieve one season typically regress the next season. It's why so many Jack Adams winners get fired shortly after winning the award.

[Kipper_3434]

Sutter definitely did very well as GM here. I'm surprised he never got/wanted another chance. Guess he was a coach at heart anyway, so glad he got his cups.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Low talent teams that overachieve one season typically regress the next season. It's why so many Jack Adams winners get fired shortly after winning the award.

In 2011-12, the Avalanche were a .537 hockey team and had ROR, Duchene, Landeskog as young guys. They just missed the POs. They won 41 games but didn't pick up enough extra points in losses (just 6 compared to LA who won 40 but had 15 OT or SO losses). A pretty successful year for a team that had finished 2nd last the year before (only Edmonton was worse).

The next year, 12-13, they go .406, second last in the league, but win the lottery and pick Mackinnon. Fla settled for Barkov. So yeah, you can be a middling team and then get a high pick.

Speaking of Fla, that year they finished last. But the year before they were in the POs and had 23 OA pick.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sutter was not a good gm here, and we ar elucky he got fired when he did as he probably would have crippled the franchise. He did some good, but his constant roster turnover, coach turnover, trading away picks, not giving a #### about the draft really set the franchise back. He had no vision outside of year to year. Not to mention his toxic behaviour 2 times that led to him being fired.

[Yeah_Baby]

Yeah, you're right, I got my wires crossed RE Nystrom.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Low talent teams that overachieve one season typically regress the next season. It's why so many Jack Adams winners get fired shortly after winning the award.

It happened to the 14/15 Flames, and Treliving went in on the team in the offseason trading picks. We ended up picking Chucky the next season #6 overall and firing Hartley.

That team had more pieces the build around though. This team is being led by vets so much different situations.

They can't be blinded by this season and go spend picks and cap on "now" players. This team it still far away from being a regular contender.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Sutter definitely did very well as GM here. I'm surprised he never got/wanted another chance. Guess he was a coach at heart anyway, so glad he got his cups.

He did very well as a GM his first year because he brought in a bunch of guys who carryed them into a PO spot and had a coup in getting Kipper.

But he had no concept of building a team from the draft. He had 3 OK picks: Phaneuf (no brainer), Backlund, and Brodie. After that only 4 guys with over 300 games. Prust, Bouma, Pardy and Ferland. Not exactly gold mining. He didn't read where the league was going post lockout, with rule changes, etc.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Sutter definitely did very well as GM here. I'm surprised he never got/wanted another chance. Guess he was a coach at heart anyway, so glad he got his cups.

Sutter's tenure as GM was 100 percent Jekyll and Hyde. 1st half, great, 2nd half oooo it was ugly. The Jokinen to NYR trade and the Phaneuf trade undid everything. Even if Stajan became a major piece of stability for nearly a decade.