04-07-2025, 04:20 PM
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#13541
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Real life? What are you talking about?
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Not sure if serious. The real story of that Oakland A's season.
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04-07-2025, 04:30 PM
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#13542
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First Line Centre
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The Cobra might be confusing Moneyball for Angels in the Outfield
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MMF is the tough as nails cop that "plays by his own rules". The force keeps suspending him when he crosses the line but he keeps coming back and then cracks a big case.
-JiriHrdina
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04-07-2025, 04:48 PM
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#13543
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Centre is very easy to learn, he can do it.
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His biggest fear is reportedly another player skating in his general direction.
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04-07-2025, 05:40 PM
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#13544
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Not sure if serious. The real story of that Oakland A's season.
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So, you think I believe Chris Pratt played first base for the Oakland A’s?
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04-07-2025, 06:27 PM
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#13545
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
So, you think I believe Chris Pratt played first base for the Oakland A’s?
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No. That's not it.
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04-07-2025, 06:45 PM
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#13546
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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I don’t think there’s a better sports movie than Moneyball, except for maybe Slap Shot. Bull Durham, Field of Dreams come close though.
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04-07-2025, 06:47 PM
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#13547
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashes
Speaking for myself, I've just heard so much glowing praise from 960 and other media about every "200 foot player" we've had here for so long now.. "oh you need these guys to win, these are the guys you win with".
Yet we have 2 playoff round wins in 20 years to show for it.. So until further notice yeah I'm kinda excited for anything that skews more offensively minded.
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I think we can be excited about young offensive players without disparaging the defense first blueliner that has found his way into the team's core.
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04-07-2025, 06:53 PM
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#13548
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Except in real life Pena was sent to the minors and then traded later.
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Oddly enough, when I made my last post in this thread, I was thinking of Moneyball and the difference between the movie and the reality. GMs don't just jettison assets to force their coaches to run the team a certain way, and coaches aren't dumb enough to need their hand forced like that. (The real manager of the A's at that time understood exactly what Bean was doing, and approved, though they had different opinions about the best way to use particular players.)
Moneyball the movie is great entertainment. Moneyball the book is an education. If you've only seen the movie, I highly recommend that you read the book.
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04-08-2025, 09:46 AM
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#13549
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
Oddly enough, when I made my last post in this thread, I was thinking of Moneyball and the difference between the movie and the reality. GMs don't just jettison assets to force their coaches to run the team a certain way, and coaches aren't dumb enough to need their hand forced like that. (The real manager of the A's at that time understood exactly what Bean was doing, and approved, though they had different opinions about the best way to use particular players.)
Moneyball the movie is great entertainment. Moneyball the book is an education. If you've only seen the movie, I highly recommend that you read the book.
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I'd like to introduce you to the Brad Treleving / Daryl Sutter era of the Calgary Flames. There's a more than zero percent chance that Treleving would have sent out a couple of players -- Lewis, Lucic -- to get Sutter to play Pelletier and Phillips that last year.
Was likely a main reason for the friction, and if management had Treleving's back rather than Sutter's, and still didn't want to cut Sutter because of the extension he just signed, it might have happened.
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04-08-2025, 10:50 AM
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#13550
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YyjFlames
I'd like to introduce you to the Brad Treleving / Daryl Sutter era of the Calgary Flames.
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So you're saying Darryl Sutter is dumb? Good to know.
Quote:
There's a more than zero percent chance that Treleving would have sent out a couple of players -- Lewis, Lucic -- to get Sutter to play Pelletier and Phillips that last year.
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No, there isn't. Phillips wasn't an NHLer except in the fevered imaginations of a minority of fans. As of today, at age 27, he has scored one (1) NHL goal in his life – in 34 games.
Pelletier played 24 games for the Flames that year, was no more effective than Lewis offensively, and worse defensively.
Saying there was ‘more than a zero percent chance’ of something that never happened is silly.
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Last edited by Jay Random; 04-08-2025 at 10:54 AM.
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04-08-2025, 11:09 AM
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#13551
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YyjFlames
I'd like to introduce you to the Brad Treleving / Daryl Sutter era of the Calgary Flames. There's a more than zero percent chance that Treleving would have sent out a couple of players -- Lewis, Lucic -- to get Sutter to play Pelletier and Phillips that last year.
Was likely a main reason for the friction, and if management had Treleving's back rather than Sutter's, and still didn't want to cut Sutter because of the extension he just signed, it might have happened.
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In all fairness
What number were they?
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04-08-2025, 11:19 AM
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#13552
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random
So you're saying Darryl Sutter is dumb? Good to know.
No, there isn't. Phillips wasn't an NHLer except in the fevered imaginations of a minority of fans. As of today, at age 27, he has scored one (1) NHL goal in his life – in 34 games.
Pelletier played 24 games for the Flames that year, was no more effective than Lewis offensively, and worse defensively.
Saying there was ‘more than a zero percent chance’ of something that never happened is silly.
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I was going to make a point that it's stubbornness not dumbness (your word), but figured that you were smart enough to not need it clarified. Sutter was stubborn, playing his team his way -- very much how Art Howe was portrayed in Moneyball -- and the coach lost his job and Treleving left because of that stubbornness, and because ownership backed Sutter over the GM.
Moneyball was a semi-ficticious account of the early aught As, but there very much is a parallel to the Flames management and coaching during those two years. Your original post suggests there isn't this type of conflict in the NHL, but there is.
Whether Pelletier and Phillips have successful careers or not ignores the fact that Sutter preferred his vets over giving those two players a chance.
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04-08-2025, 11:39 AM
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#13553
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Franchise Player
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Treliving is an old school hockey GM, very much the opposite of an analytics driven GM a la Billy Beane.
They do share a few things in common. Neither has won anything.
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04-08-2025, 11:43 AM
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#13554
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YyjFlames
I was going to make a point that it's stubbornness not dumbness (your word), but figured that you were smart enough to not need it clarified. Sutter was stubborn, playing his team his way -- very much how Art Howe was portrayed in Moneyball -- and the coach lost his job and Treleving left because of that stubbornness, and because ownership backed Sutter over the GM.
Moneyball was a semi-ficticious account of the early aught As, but there very much is a parallel to the Flames management and coaching during those two years. Your original post suggests there isn't this type of conflict in the NHL, but there is.
Whether Pelletier and Phillips have successful careers or not ignores the fact that Sutter preferred his vets over giving those two players a chance.
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Call him stubborn all you want, the guy has two Stanley Cup rings as Head Coach and a 3rd if the NHL didn’t hate the Flames.
Sutter hasn’t been proven wrong on any of the prospects.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
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04-08-2025, 11:57 AM
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#13555
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 868904
Call him stubborn all you want, the guy has two Stanley Cup rings as Head Coach and a 3rd if the NHL didn’t hate the Flames.
Sutter hasn’t been proven wrong on any of the prospects.
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He is stubborn. That's why he has the rings. His stubbornness, though, wasn't working in Calgary the second time around (as much as I thought it would help at the time).
Some of you guys seem to intentionally try to miss the point by taking offense to something.
Okay... so you guys can be happy... Treleving and Sutter lived in harmony, never having conflict, and their relationship and styles to do things their way have nothing to do with why neither are in Calgary now. Like JR said, GMs don't do things to force coaches to run teams the way they want, and coaches always do whatever GMs say. They are all very smart and work perfectly well together.
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04-08-2025, 12:26 PM
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#13556
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
Flames ice time since the trade for Frost:
5v5:
- Kadri - 15:30
- Frost - 13:05
- Backlund - 12:58
PP:
-Kadri - 3:27
-Frost - 3:11
-Backlund - 1:30
PK:
- Backlund - 2:19
- Kadri - 0:03
- Frost - 0:00
So once again...what center in the organization is Backlund taking important ice time away from. Both Frost and Kadri already get more 5V5 and more PP time than Backlund does.
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In an attempt to rewind the conversation like ... 20 pages. I am curious about how Bourque matches up against Backlund. I still think Bourque is a good offer-sheet target and I wonder if he would be able to replace Backlund at some point next season.
Easy stats:
Bourque = 68gp, 10G, 14A, +9, 12:31 TOI, 47% FO%, 33 BLK, 41 HIT, 11 TAKE, 36 GIVE
Backlund = 71gp, 11G, 14A, +0, 18:40 TOI, 48.3% FO%, 45 BLK, 37 HIT, 35 TAKE, 66 GIVE
At a glance, Bourque's rookie season stats is not insanely far off from Backlund this season. Looking at some fancy stats, Bourque is deployed a bit more defensively than I expected to see (56.3%), which is not as high as Backlund's 66% defensive zone starts but it does show that the Stars are trusting Bourque in the D zone.
Fancy stats:
Bourque = 53.4 CF%, 49.9 FF%, 103.2 PDO
Backlund = 49.4 CF%, 49.5 FF%, 98 PDO
While I admit that I never really look at fancy stats and am not the best person to do a comparison, my basic analysis makes me think that Bourque could come in, continue to develop, and take over from Backlund. Bourque's numbers are pretty good, especially considering how much less ice time he gets but assuming he also gets easier matchups than Backlund.
Bourque could even start on Backlund's line early next season, get mentored by Backlund and Coleman, and then transition to be the #3C while Backlund moves to 4C.
Anyone better at fancy stats want to weigh in?
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04-08-2025, 03:08 PM
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#13557
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I think we can be excited about young offensive players without disparaging the defense first blueliner that has found his way into the team's core.
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Maybe go back and read again.. I haven't disparaged Bahl at all, I wasn't even talking about him. I think he's been terrific this year.
I was talking about the "200 foot players" on this team over the past 20 years who haven't helped us win more than 2 playoff rounds.
How exactly did that sound like I was crapping on Kevin freaking Bahl who's been here less than 80 games? Ah well whatever fits the script I guess.
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04-08-2025, 03:30 PM
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#13558
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YyjFlames
Whether Pelletier and Phillips have successful careers or not ignores the fact that Sutter preferred his vets over giving those two players a chance.
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Maybe… just maybe… Sutter was right to prefer his vets.
Phillips wasn't an NHL player and certainly could not have replaced Lucic.
Pelletier, an undersized and inexperienced left-shooting winger, was not going to replace Lewis, an experienced right-shooting centre, in a checking role.
And maybe… just maybe… there was no argument between Sutter and Treliving about it, because they both recognized these facts.
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04-08-2025, 03:31 PM
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#13559
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashes
Maybe go back and read again.. I haven't disparaged Bahl at all, I wasn't even talking about him. I think he's been terrific this year.
I was talking about the "200 foot players" on this team over the past 20 years who haven't helped us win more than 2 playoff rounds.
How exactly did that sound like I was crapping on Kevin freaking Bahl who's been here less than 80 games? Ah well whatever fits the script I guess.
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You seemed to be crapping on the entire idea of ‘200-foot players’.
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04-08-2025, 03:41 PM
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#13560
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 868904
Call him stubborn all you want, the guy has two Stanley Cup rings as Head Coach and a 3rd if the NHL didn’t hate the Flames.
Sutter hasn’t been proven wrong on any of the prospects.
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The game changed dramatically from the last time Darryl Sutter won a cup. Sutter does not change. The talented players, collectively, more or less had a revolt when Sutter was here. Sutter was certainly part of the reason Tkachuk bolted.
Maybe he's yet to be proven wrong about a prospect. He was also the GM from 2003 to 2010, which is very dark period in Flames drafting. Sutter's ability to assess prospects is abysmal.
Last edited by blankall; 04-09-2025 at 10:15 AM.
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