Canada to Patrol Arctic Ocean to Press Claim of Sovereignty

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've never liked the trip line strategy to be honest. Putting a ship up there to waive the flag, sound the alarm, die gloriously.

If your going to patrol at least be able to punch someone in the nose on the way out.

It is not about fighting people for the arctic. It is about showing the world that we own and occupy the territory. There is no need to spend that kind of money to exert our sovereignty. You dont see all of our cities occupied with military to show the world that this is our land.

[Nehkara]

I think a Canadian-built ship is a great idea for this kind of purpose but I wish they had a bit more punch.

That said, I'm glad we will soon have a more visible presence in the arctic and at least some weapons in case things get interesting.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Russian Novik class coastal defense vessel more then fulfils the type of mission that the Canadian Government is looking for, but it would need a sturdier hull for ice breaking duties.

Since the United States seems to be our main rival in establishing our rights in the north, and I don't think our claims are in confilct with Russia, maybe we can come to an agreement of mutal support with a purchase. The American outrage would be interesting.

Canada can no longer playoff the USA and the UK to protect it's interests. We need to start doing what's best for Canada as the United States won't.

[Calgaryborn]

The down side to having a Canadian built ship is the time frame. I've heard a quote by one expert of 15 years to design from scratch and build one. That seems too long. I think they should purchase a couple immediately and than follow with their own designed model later.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It is not about fighting people for the arctic. It is about showing the world that we own and occupy the territory. There is no need to spend that kind of money to exert our sovereignty. You dont see all of our cities occupied with military to show the world that this is our land.

Well, when the USA or any country disputes our rights to our cities, I'm sure we'll see a military presence, just as when someone disputes our rights in the north.

The United States is more or less telling us to go F ourselves. We can probably take it to court and win but as per the soft lumber agreement, the USA will ignore it and end up getting what they want unless we present a strong force and do it now.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The down side to having a Canadian built ship is the time frame. I've heard a quote by one expert of 15 years to design from scratch and build one. That seems too long. I think they should purchase a couple immediately and than follow with their own designed model later.

The article originally said 5 years to completion but the article has since been changed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

It is not about fighting people for the arctic. It is about showing the world that we own and occupy the territory. There is no need to spend that kind of money to exert our sovereignty. You dont see all of our cities occupied with military to show the world that this is our land.

When the American's start driving tanks through our cities without our permission then we should have garrisons there.

As it stands, the American's are sending icebreakers, merchant ships and subs through our waters without our permission. They're basically building a court case built around navigatable waters in case it ever gets to the world courts.

[ken0042]

If the issue is the Americans wanting to use our waters, why don't we just simply let them.

Have them sign a 99 year lease at $1 per year.

There, I just saved the gov't $6B. (OK, $5,999,999,901)

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If the issue is the Americans wanting to use our waters, why don't we just simply let them.

Have them sign a 99 year lease at $1 per year.

There, I just saved the gov't $6B. (OK, $5,999,999,901)

Because then there is the possibility of America making claim to any natural resources in the area.

Oooops...that one just cost the Canadian government $10 billion.

[ken0042]

Ah- but if they enter into a lease with us, we have legal documents proving that they acknowledged that they had no ownership up there; just access to use the water ways.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When the American's start driving tanks through our cities without our permission then we should have garrisons there.

As it stands, the American's are sending icebreakers, merchant ships and subs through our waters without our permission. They're basically building a court case built around navigatable waters in case it ever gets to the world courts.

That is why a presence is need, not necassarily a military one. Lets be honest here, no matter what kind of naval ice breaker we have, if it we went to war with the US it would not matter one bit.

I find it quite disturbing how many people on this site think that the US will or may invade Canada. It is something that will never happen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

That is why a presence is need, not necassarily a military one. Lets be honest here, no matter what kind of naval ice breaker we have, if it we went to war with the US it would not matter one bit.

I find it quite disturbing how many people on this site think that the US will or may invade Canada. It is something that will never happen.

I'm not saying that the U.S. would invade Canada, the days of the manifest destiny are long past, even though the Pentagon probably still has operation polar slaughter locked in a filing cabinet ready to go.

If your going to patrol something you patrol in force, you don't wave the flag around from the yardarm of a 10 foot rowboat. Sadly its an upredictable world and you never know when you or Nato might need to have armed arctic patrol vessels.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I'm curious to know what the difference is between a "Polar 5" class icebreaker vs the "Polar 8" promised under Mulroney. Polar 8 is obviously a big kahuna type vessel but I'm wondering how watered down this solution is.

Are there even any Polar 8 class vessels around?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not saying that the U.S. would invade Canada, the days of the manifest destiny are long past, even though the Pentagon probably still has operation polar slaughter locked in a filing cabinet ready to go.

If your going to patrol something you patrol in force, you don't wave the flag around from the yardarm of a 10 foot rowboat. Sadly its an upredictable world and you never know when you or Nato might need to have armed arctic patrol vessels.

Which is why they are armed... just not heavily because there is no need currently for that kind of vessel.

[worth]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122901412.html

[CaptainCrunch]

Great article

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The article originally said 5 years to completion but the article has since been changed.

The 15 years came from some expert who was commenting on the government's announcment on CBC radio. He seemed to think that to design an original Canadian craft and build it would take much longer than buying one. Of course the benefits of designing our own would be great. We could end up having the new standard in that class of ship instead of last years model. It would be custom designed to our specific needs and help our ship building industry out. The down side of course would be time. We should have had these ships built and operating in the 1980s.

[worth]

plus more jobs

[Resolute 14]

And further proof that politics in Canada is completely disfunctional...

The Liberals accused Harper of breaking an election promise over this,
as he promised that Canada would build and send three heavyweight ships.

Apparently going with 6-8 middleweights for the same cost is a bad thing.

[HOZ]

Looks like Canada will be going with a stealth type ship.



They'lll never see us coming. Mind you don't leave it in a snowbank because you'll never find it again!