[Signing] Flames sign Aydar Suniev to ELC (3 yrs, $923k AAV)

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Performing is such a subjective word.

If you mean filling the net then yeah they have many underperforming players. It's an offensively challenged team.

But Suniev really isn't in line to replace those bottom 3-5 players because he likely couldn't hold a candle to them in the 200 foot game.

Fans rag on the fourth line all the time but they're actually near the top of the team in what they give up defensively.

Is he ready to take on that role?

To me it's Pospisil, Sharangovich and perhaps Farabee (but he generally plays more of a shutdown role).

It feels like some posters believe the Flames could somehow only play him in the offensive zone. There might be some benefit to Suniev having practiced how the team plays in those other zones.

[CKPThunder]

Have the Flames coaches ever been on the ice with Suniev yet? He hasn't been at any training camps and I don't believe he attended any prospect camps either. Would think it would be a good idea to have the coaches see Suniev on the ice at a practice before having him play a game. I figure the earliest he plays is against the Knights or on the road next week in California as long as there isn't any visa issues of any sort.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am in the 'rebuild crowd', and I 100% feel it would be wrong to just throw Suniev in the deep tank. That's just poor development AND sends a poor message to the rest of the team who have battled hard to get to this spot in the standings this late into the season. Rooney, Klapka and Lomberg have played very hard and had a lot of success lately - it would be criminal to take any of them out of the lineup after their performances lately. Sharangovich has only recently started looking like himself again, so you don't want to pull him out. Pospisil? Such a useful utilitarian player. How some people view Backlund now just makes me shake my head.


Suniev signed. He is going to play 'x' amount of games depending on how he does in practice and where the Flames are in the standings, and what players are trying to play through what injuries at the moment. Let him catch his breath and get a bit comfortable with the room first. I am just glad that the "signing watch" is over. I remember when Treliving announced that the Flames are going to sign Brandon Hickey in a short time.. and then crickets... Or Tim Erixon.. or Adam Fox. He signed here, he is going to play here soon enough. I am just relieved for it. I am very excited to see him play, and I think there is a strong chance he will become a very important piece - a real difference maker - in the lineup regularly. I think he is going to be one of the MANY pieces - a huge change-over of players - in the next few seasons. Let's just celebrate the signing for now.


I love the fact that he is burning a year too. I think the Flames saved money on the Gaudreau extension because he burned a year too. Had he waited, his extension probably would have been at least 1 million more - perhaps as much as 2 million per - as there was an uptick in salaries starting later in that off-season and continuing into the next. WIth the cap rising, the sooner the Flames extend him, the potentially better team-friendly deal he signs. I am hoping for the same with Parekh as well. They may not produce at a high enough level to to be in a position to demand more money as they may be in the third. Either way, I don't think burning a year is bad at all, especially given the structure and competition arc that the Flames are in. Burning a year is tougher when you have a championship-caliber contending team and you really need more ELCs. Now it is about trying to get past these 2 years, and extend them to a long-term lower dollar deal that potentially that extra 3rd year may help them demand. If I am an agent, I actually wouldn't want my player to burn a deal, at least not in a period where there seems to be significant cap growth.


This is exciting. Once Sharangovich returns to form (and I think he will) that Toffoli trade will look even better. Coronato - Sharangovich and Suniev are all elite-level shooters (and Sharangovich NEEDS to start shooting more again). Flames need guys who are dangerous with the puck on their stick.

[Oy Tiggins]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am in the 'rebuild crowd', and I 100% feel it would be wrong to just throw Suniev in the deep tank. That's just poor development AND sends a poor message to the rest of the team who have battled hard to get to this spot in the standings this late into the season. Rooney, Klapka and Lomberg have played very hard and had a lot of success lately - it would be criminal to take any of them out of the lineup after their performances lately. Sharangovich has only recently started looking like himself again, so you don't want to pull him out. Pospisil? Such a useful utilitarian player. How some people view Backlund now just makes me shake my head.

Believing that we are throwing Suniev in at the wrong time is completely valid. However, the sooner the organization stops acting like it owes players just because they tried hard, the better.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not sure how having him play a few games is poor development. This is the end of the season, not the start and gifting someone a roster spot. He can't go the AHL, so this is the only chance we can look at him in live game action until preseason.

Coronato played a game and played in the AHL next season that didn't ruin his development. He probably could have played a few more games.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Oy Tiggins

Believing that we are throwing Suniev in at the wrong time is completely valid. However, the sooner the organization stops acting like it owes players just because they tried hard, the better.

I don't believe that to be the case. Huska is not shy to bench and to scratch players in the slightest. If it was, I would not have made the point of mentioning particular players.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Not sure how having him play a few games is poor development. This is the end of the season, not the start and gifting someone a roster spot. He can't go the AHL, so this is the only chance we can look at him in live game action until preseason.

Coronato played a game and played in the AHL next season that didn't ruin his development. He probably could have played a few more games.

This is the issue... you don't care about anything else, you just want to see the new toy.

That's fine, but save the attacks on team development strategies and the rest of it.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Im a big fan of Bader's models to help project players, it adds some fun to the speculation, but it's certainly not etched in stone that Suniev (or Coronato for that matter) can't achieve more than he predicts.

Case in point, using Farabee as a comparable to Coronato in terms of point projection makes them look like very similar players but I think we would all agree that they play a very different style of game and Coronato is a much deadlier shooter. So saying that Farabee has a low chance of being a star so therefore Coronato likely won't be just because.. numbers.. is just a fallacy. Same with Suniev, when everything we've heard from his coaches is that he's extremely driven and motivated to make the NHL and has seemingly improved every single year. Not saying it's super likely, but it's very early for those conversations.

Would love to see Coronato and Suniev on a scoring line together at some point though, exciting times!

To the first paragraph yes definitely. The weakness with the model is there can always be extenuating circumstances about their production and how their talent translates from one league to the next. Fans of teams with prospects who outperform the model are always in Bader's replies letting him know.

To the second part, no it's not a fallacy. It's literally just - players who produce like this, at this level, at this age, in their D+X, have become a star X% of the time. Opinions of coaches don't invalidate the model come on. What are you saying, the model is invalid because this prospect is driven? be serious.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Patience.

There was much nervous shifting in chairs and dry coughs when it took all of four days for Suniev to sign a NHL contract after UMass was eliminated.

He'll get into a game soon enough.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Suniev isn't the same quality prospect as Perreault or Leonard. Of the 3 being discussed I think Leonard is far and away the most "ready"

Agreed, not a slight at Suniev in the least but it's a fact. Don't think many posters appreciate how big the difference between NCAA, AHL and NHL are. It's borderline irresponsible for the coaching staff to put in Suniev at this point in the season, especially if we keep winning games. Wonder if anyone remembers Coronato's first few games in the 23/24 season, he looked brutal. Even now after 100games in the league, you get the feeling that there is still a ton he needs to work on (which is a good thing for him).

Interesting to look at the numbers, but of the current top 50 point getters, 30 didn't need AHL seasoning. However, 21 of them are top10 picks, 5 were first rounders which leaves 4 players who were drafted afterwards.
Aho, Point, Bratt and Panarin. Panarin signed as an older player so he doesn't really fit the analysis, so really it's 3 players drafted outside the first round were able to make the NHL without any AHL time. Some other relevant names who made the jump successfully are Fox, Faber, Slavin and Gaudreau (RIP). I haven't looked, but I would bet that if you looked at the top 51-300 scorers, the amount of players who were drafted outside round 1 and played <20 AHL games before making the league can be counted on two hands.

My point being, unless we view Suniev as a literal lottery ticket of a prospect, there is no way he would be able to adequately replace any player on the current Flames roster this year and next year as well.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Pro hockey is a whole new ballgame.

[konradical]

He will probably play in the last home game or last game of the season. Whichever game the Flames are eliminated in

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by saillias

To the first paragraph yes definitely. The weakness with the model is there can always be extenuating circumstances about their production and how their talent translates from one league to the next. Fans of teams with prospects who outperform the model are always in Bader's replies letting him know.

To the second part, no it's not a fallacy. It's literally just - players who produce like this, at this level, at this age, in their D+X, have become a star X% of the time. Opinions of coaches don't invalidate the model come on. What are you saying, the model is invalid because this prospect is driven? be serious.

Fair enough, "fallacy" was poorly used.

I'm mostly just saying two things, that Coronato and Farabee are poor comparable's because they play a different style of game, so I don't love the way the model is used in that context. But again, I do love the Bader system to see prospects, I think it's used really well sometimes but after literally watching Farabee on our team the last 20+ games I don't think it's a great comp.

Secondly, yes I do think Suniev's drive/motivation/intangibles will increase his chances of being a more impactful player than the model suggests. Coming over to NA as young teen from Russia, moving from BCHL to NCAA and improving every year at every stop is impressive. Also the fact he put on like what, 10-15 pounds since being drafted? That's great to see, and intangibles like that make me think he's got a better than 1% shot as the model suggests.

"be serious"? man it's just my hockey opinion out here on the internet, don't hurt yourself thinking too hard about it

[devo22]

I don't think it's a huge issue. I understand people want to see the shiny new toy, and the "we need goals" argument is a good one. But having him slowly adapt to pro hockey, training with the main group and playing two, three games at the end is not a bad thing at all. It certainly makes more sense than throwing him into the deep end and heaping unnecessary expectations on him. That being said, I would definitely play him in those last couple of games, just to see where he is and what he needs to work on.

I've seen the "but the Rangers are playing Perreault" thing as well, but we need to be honest here: Perreault is on a different level than Suniev. Just as a quick reference point, Wheeler had Suniev ranked 8th among Flames prospects in January. He had Perreault 9th ... among all drafted prospects in the NHL. Suniev will surely be in the AHL next season, hopefully developing well to contend for a spot in a year or so. Perreault is NHL ready.

[Canada 02]

I’m not sure even gabe perreault is nhl ready. He is small and not a strong skater.
I think the only players who are ready is Ryan Leonard and Zeev Buium, when his season is over.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Pro hockey is a whole new ballgame.

Suniev has thrown his hat into the ring.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Pretty sure Yegor's had plenty of opportunities to improve his play at this point. A young and upcoming player should get a few more chances than he does with so few games left.

Shootout winner in Colorado

[expatflame]

Wrong thread

[united]

Impressive bloodlines on that 2022-23 Penticton team Suniev played on. Perhaps a touch of inspiration.

Jackson Nieuwendyk (Joe)
Josh Niedermayer (Scott)
Callum Arnott (Jason)

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Shootout winner in Colorado

...and?