What would you tell your kids to do for a living?

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think it is better for students not to live at home for University (even if studyng in the same city where the parents live).

Like everything else, I think this is heavily dependent on the individual student and the family circumstances.

With our two kids, one is extremely self directed and also had a very solid idea of what he wanted to do, and I actively encouraged him to go out of province. The other suffers severely from ADHD, which includes the delayed maturity and lack of some life skills that is associated with that, and would have drowned on their own.

The other factor is family circumstances. If family finances allow for them to be fully supported while living away from home, then that simplifies things a lot. If they are taking on student loans to study away from home, then I would want to be sure that they are not graduating with either a degree they are uncertain about, or in a program that does not have a definitive job opportunity at the end. The last thing you want to do is try to start life with $100,000 in student loan debt and poor job prospects. They won't be able to afford rent or a mortgage, and will just be moving back home anyway.

With our ADHD child, we wanted to be sure that they had time to mature, and would be able to afford a "second chance" at school if they had to drop out or changed their minds. As it is, they also have worked away from home every summer for many years now, so they've had the ability to build independence that way.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes, agreed. Not to mention that burnout rates are really high in education at a variety of levels. It's not for the faint of heart.

If I could advise anyone to choose a career that is essentially bulletproof, it would be cybersecurity.

Rapid growth industry with endless job opportunities across a wide range of organizations. Everyone needs it, there's not enough workers in the field, and the increasing connectivity of everything to the network creates thousands of new security problems that need resolution. Plus, the job pays quite well, and you can kind of make your own hours.

Do you have anything that shows burnout rates compared to other vocations? The comparison would be what matters to me and is the only thing that would make that claim have any value.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think it is better for students not to live at home for University (even if studyng in the same city where the parents live).

Super hard disagree from me on this unless you have wealthy parents that are paying for your schooling and accommodation/living expenses.

For people without the kind of wealth it takes to support a kid living on their own while going to school without taking on debt, then go nuts. For the vast majority, though, a gap year where you get paid to live elsewhere is the way to get that experience without saddling yourself or your family with unnecessary debt. Like, work at a ski hill or resort or cruise ship or something to get a worldly/independent-living scenario and save money for school at the same time.

Living away from home for university adds a good $20k at least to the annual cost of education. Casually adding a minimum of $80k to the cost of education is financially irresponsible when you could make that cost $0 (again, unless you're rich). Living away from home for school is an incredible luxury that is really only for the wealthy.

And even if you can afford it, you have to be able to afford it and then some or the opportunity cost of spending that money for the ####s and giggles of it is an egregious waste if it means you then don't have that $80k+ kicking around to help with start-up expenses for life (eg a down payment).

I'm insisting my kids live at home through school because I can't stomach the thought of our familial money evaporating like that. I'm not working an extra few years just so they can live in an apartment 12 minutes away from a perfectly good all-expenses-paid bedroom, stocked fridge, free reign of the basement, and essentially no rules.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is 'Join the Army' off the table?

I have a close friend who served in the army for a number of his early years in the communication branch. He learned a great deal with regard to electrical technology, which he later used to gain steady employment when he left the army.

When I went to University, some 60 odd years ago, one could get their university paid for by signing up with the Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP). This program gives young Canadians an opportunity to obtain both an officer’s commission in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) and an undergraduate degree.

With all the talk about spending more on our military, perhaps it's the opportune time for some of the young people to consider a job in the CAF.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Super hard disagree from me on this unless you have wealthy parents that are paying for your schooling and accommodation/living expenses.

For people without the kind of wealth it takes to support a kid living on their own while going to school without taking on debt, then go nuts. For the vast majority, though, a gap year where you get paid to live elsewhere is the way to get that experience without saddling yourself or your family with unnecessary debt. Like, work at a ski hill or resort or cruise ship or something to get a worldly/independent-living scenario and save money for school at the same time.

Living away from home for university adds a good $20k at least to the annual cost of education. Casually adding a minimum of $80k to the cost of education is financially irresponsible when you could make that cost $0 (again, unless you're rich). Living away from home for school is an incredible luxury that is really only for the wealthy.

And even if you can afford it, you have to be able to afford it and then some or the opportunity cost of spending that money for the ####s and giggles of it is an egregious waste if it means you then don't have that $80k+ kicking around to help with start-up expenses for life (eg a down payment).

I'm insisting my kids live at home through school because I can't stomach the thought of our familial money evaporating like that. I'm not working an extra few years just so they can live in an apartment 12 minutes away from a perfectly good all-expenses-paid bedroom, stocked fridge, free reign of the basement, and essentially no rules.

I think it depends on the kid. I was useless at that age and stayed at home.

Did help for down payment and all that earning during internship. My kids are very independent and their dickhead grandparents gave them each $100k many years ago for the purpose. We barely use the RESP and are advised to take more than he actually uses. They don't even know they have a slush fund. He is very thrifty, the next one will be a nightmare but he might not have marks to get into school anyway, haha.'

I think it would have been better if I went away or lived on my own, definitely would have had more fun.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Better get him in seven spring hockey programs.

I know you have experience with this- do you know if the spring hockey programs help him grow 2 feet because that seems to be his biggest weakness.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I think it depends on the kid. I was useless at that age and stayed at home.

Did help for down payment and all that earning during internship. My kids are very independent and their dickhead grandparents gave them each $100k many years ago for the purpose. We barely use the RESP and are advised to take more than he actually uses. They don't even know they have a slush fund. He is very thrifty, the next one will be a nightmare but he might not have marks to get into school anyway, haha.'

I think it would have been better if I went away or lived on my own, definitely would have had more fun.

Yeah, I did two years off after high school before university. One year worked at Lake Louise and lived on the mountain. That was fkn epic. Next year I did the European backpacking thing and worked a few jobs.

My thought on gap years is if you aren't going to go back to school, you likely wouldn't have stayed in, anyway, so wasn't something I worried about for myself.

It's all financial, though, for me. If the numbers don't allow it (and by that I mean you need to do it without debt while still meeting your other goals like retirement savings and down payment help, which I think most young people will require now) then it's moot. Can't afford it then can't do it. End of conversation.

If the numbers allow it, then yeah, living away from home as a young person rules.

Yeah, we're just withdrawing maximum allowable amount from the RESPs now, too. More than is necessary, but the whole point is to scoop that 20% government matching, so withdrawing every cent put in is my goal.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is 'Join the Army' off the table?

A former golfing friend of mine did just that, He was living in Nelson BC at the time and decided to quit High School. Came home and told his dad what he did who said he had 2 choices, get a job or join the army. He told his dad that he already did the later. Ended up doing air traffic control over seas for the better part of 25 years.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Like everything else, I think this is heavily dependent on the individual student and the family circumstances.

With our two kids, one is extremely self directed and also had a very solid idea of what he wanted to do, and I actively encouraged him to go out of province. The other suffers severely from ADHD, which includes the delayed maturity and lack of some life skills that is associated with that, and would have drowned on their own.

The other factor is family circumstances. If family finances allow for them to be fully supported while living away from home, then that simplifies things a lot. If they are taking on student loans to study away from home, then I would want to be sure that they are not graduating with either a degree they are uncertain about, or in a program that does not have a definitive job opportunity at the end. The last thing you want to do is try to start life with $100,000 in student loan debt and poor job prospects. They won't be able to afford rent or a mortgage, and will just be moving back home anyway.

With our ADHD child, we wanted to be sure that they had time to mature, and would be able to afford a "second chance" at school if they had to drop out or changed their minds. As it is, they also have worked away from home every summer for many years now, so they've had the ability to build independence that way.

I couldn't agree more. However, I have a niece who was in that situation and travelled overseas where she landed a job teaching English, and made enough in a reasonably short period of time (a year or two) to pay off her loans.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Do you have anything that shows burnout rates compared to other vocations? The comparison would be what matters to me and is the only thing that would make that claim have any value.

A quick look did dig up some studies from the states that show it has the highest burnout rate across professions, but being US based, it's not exactly apples to apples. Even across Canada would be tricky as pay differs province to province. That said, I think it's probably safe to say the number is at least quite high (whether it's highest could be debated).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393500/...ce=chatgpt.com

In a way, this could actually be a good thing for your daughter. Teachers dropping like flies opens up full time contracts, so if she's among the ones that truly enjoys it, she might be set.

That said, it's often the teachers that love teaching that carry a unique struggle in that the job ironically gets in the way of the teaching. It's a bit like a vet... it attracts people who love animals yet most of the job is putting them down, so caring too much can be a problem. The teachers I know that love it are quite good at tossing on a YouTube video and being ok that they can't reach every kid.

Really a theme across this entire thread is that there aren't exactly great jobs and terrible jobs, there's just personal fit that should be optimized for.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by firebug

Help....

My daughter has been accepted into engineering at UofA and the Math program at UofC.

She's been unable to make a decision and I don't want to make the decision for her.

What would future opportunities look like between them?

We live out towards Priddis so while UofC is closer it'll be a crappy commute. She is really good at math but not a savant/prodigy and my concern is that she'll need to be competing with those sorts in the math program.

I’m biased toward engineering because it has a broad and well paying career path. So if you want to stay technical you can and if you want to go into management you can. There are very few office jobs that you can’t get to do starting with an Engineering and aiming your career.

I have a cousin who did Actuarial Science and is working in Finance in the US now. My concern with the math degree would be how do you turn it into a job afterwards. So unless academia is the focus then I’d avoid pure math.

But if you go with the follow your dreams approach why does she like math and physics? Is it using numbers to solve some kind of problem or is it a fascination of how numbers work. If it’s the numbers to solve problems than engineering or actuarial science over pure math but if she likes math for maths sake then the pure math world might be the right choice.

Career focused thought would be pursue a degree that leads to a designation.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Dion

A former golfing friend of mine did just that, He was living in Nelson BC at the time and decided to quit High School. Came home and told his dad what he did who said he had 2 choices, get a job or join the army. He told his dad that he already did the later. Ended up doing air traffic control over seas for the better part of 25 years.

I propose it as a joke for 2 principle reasons.

1. My dad would have probably given me the same ultimatum.

2. I would be terrible in any form, aspect or branch of Armed Forces. I do not like being told what to do. No self-respecting military would or should want anything to do with me.

Think: Bill Murray in 'Stripes' but less competent and more insubordinate and significantly more sarcastic.

Did Pauly Shore ever do a War movie? "In the Army Now!" Thats the one! Thats probably the most accurate analogy I could think of. I dont think I've seen it but I think we can all safely assume that it did not go well.

Of course the modern military isn't a joke, they provide marketable skills both educational and employable.

That being said however, my tune changes a little when we acknowledge that we have a seemingly unprecedented number of Wars and conflicts going on for the Modern Era and tensions around the World seem high and tempers are starting to flare.

Yeah, I could hide behind The League of Women Voters and drunkenly hose stains off a monument in Lubbock, Texas, but what if by some mistake or desperation I get sent into a War-Zone?

I have ZERO militarily marketable skills. I'm pretty much the guy who dies first at Paintball. No one wants their taxes done or to learn the finer points of Capital Gains calculations when bullets are whizzing by and bombs are dropping.

"Lets just get this pesky grenade out of here...now, where were we? Ah! Thats right! Now, the T5013...now you want to do here is...are you taking notes?"

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I know you have experience with this- do you know if the spring hockey programs help him grow 2 feet because that seems to be his biggest weakness.

He's fooked, but you can be assured you will spend alot more money and they will chase the empty dream for a more prolonged period though.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Super hard disagree from me on this unless you have wealthy parents that are paying for your schooling and accommodation/living expenses.

For people without the kind of wealth it takes to support a kid living on their own while going to school without taking on debt, then go nuts. For the vast majority, though, a gap year where you get paid to live elsewhere is the way to get that experience without saddling yourself or your family with unnecessary debt. Like, work at a ski hill or resort or cruise ship or something to get a worldly/independent-living scenario and save money for school at the same time.

Living away from home for university adds a good $20k at least to the annual cost of education. Casually adding a minimum of $80k to the cost of education is financially irresponsible when you could make that cost $0 (again, unless you're rich). Living away from home for school is an incredible luxury that is really only for the wealthy.

And even if you can afford it, you have to be able to afford it and then some or the opportunity cost of spending that money for the ####s and giggles of it is an egregious waste if it means you then don't have that $80k+ kicking around to help with start-up expenses for life (eg a down payment).

I'm insisting my kids live at home through school because I can't stomach the thought of our familial money evaporating like that. I'm not working an extra few years just so they can live in an apartment 12 minutes away from a perfectly good all-expenses-paid bedroom, stocked fridge, free reign of the basement, and essentially no rules.

Can you flesh out the $20K a year a bit more for me? Because outside of rent what additional costs are you incorporating that aren’t already being paid at home?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, I did two years off after high school before university. One year worked at Lake Louise and lived on the mountain. That was fkn epic. Next year I did the European backpacking thing and worked a few jobs.

My thought on gap years is if you aren't going to go back to school, you likely wouldn't have stayed in, anyway, so wasn't something I worried about for myself.

It's all financial, though, for me. If the numbers don't allow it (and by that I mean you need to do it without debt while still meeting your other goals like retirement savings and down payment help, which I think most young people will require now) then it's moot. Can't afford it then can't do it. End of conversation.

If the numbers allow it, then yeah, living away from home as a young person rules.

Yeah, we're just withdrawing maximum allowable amount from the RESPs now, too. More than is necessary, but the whole point is to scoop that 20% government matching, so withdrawing every cent put in is my goal.

Going away for school may require some level of bursaries, scholarships, and summer/part-time employment. I worked in a paint store though out law school and did not need much help from my parents or student loans. Other classmates spent every summer in Europe, using their student loan money for travel.

I’m also a big fan of gap years - going walkabout for a year is huge for development. I think most Aussies do this.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Can you flesh out the $20K a year a bit more for me? Because outside of rent what additional costs are you incorporating that aren’t already being paid at home?

Depends on where we're talking. Travel back home is a big one. You're coming back in the summer and Christmas at a bare minimum. So if you are driving, you need a car (upfront capital cost, insurance, maintenance, etc.) or if you're further away you're flying.

Food is another big one: at home it's free for most students as the parents are just making extra of whatever they're making for themselves. On your own? You're spending a lot more than if you live with your parents, plus you need dishes, appliances and furniture.

Your family is also doubling up on utilities/Internet. Tenants insurance comes to mind (small, but an additional expense versus just being included on your parents' household insurance).

IDK, average one-bedroom apartment in Calgary right now is $1691, plus utilities. That's $20,292 per year right there (not including utilities). Plus all those other expenses and then multiply that by four years and it's a big chunk of after-tax dollars going toward something that - imo - is just setting a person back. If there is that money in your family, how is it not way better for the long-term financial stability of a person to save that money over the four years and gift them a down payment once they graduate?

Looks like average price for a two-bedroom is $2079, plus utilities. So even with a roommate you're at $12,474/year. Average price (per Google) for utilities for an apartment in Calgary is about $440 (I went right down the middle of highest:lowest to get that number and it does include $75 for internet, but I did subtract out landline and cable TV since no kid would pay for that). That adds $5280/year divided by two people to give you $2640 of expenses above rent.

My numbers don't even factor in travel back home (if they are attending school outside of the city).

IDK, I think my numbers are reasonable.

[Fuzz]

Send 'em to Rez for the first year. Furnished, fed, and they get the experience of what other people are like. Looks like ~10k with food.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Send 'em to Rez for the first year. Furnished, fed, and they get the experience of what other people are like. Looks like ~10k with food.

For me, that's an extra $40k multiplied by two kids to equal $80k and that's if they both wrap it up in four years. I did my degree in four, but most of my slacker friends took five. If even one of my kids takes an extra year that's $90k.

Still a waste of money IMO. That's literally a down payment each...there is no point in flushing that much money down the toilet when you can do a gap year and get paid to live away from home if you want.

Plus have you met those rez kids? They're weird af. I don't want to end up with a Fuzz and surferguy.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

For me, that's an extra $40k multiplied by two kids to equal $80k and that's if they both wrap it up in four years. I did my degree in four, but most of my slacker friends took five. If even one of my kids takes an extra year that's $90k.

Still a waste of money IMO. That's literally a down payment each...there is no point in flushing that much money down the toilet when you can do a gap year and get paid to live away from home if you want.

Plus have you met those rez kids? They're weird af. I don't want to end up with a Fuzz and surferguy.

The weird kids are the ones who stay home during university.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Send 'em to Rez for the first year. Furnished, fed, and they get the experience of what other people are like. Looks like ~10k with food.

The residence cost for the first year at Queen's University in Ontario is $12,309.40 to $18,746.40, including a mandatory meal plan. The fees cover the residence period from August 30, 2025, until no later than 3 pm the day after the last scheduled exam in April 2026.

We did that for our son, and he made some lifelong friends. He phoned me on Reading Week, and said, "Dad, all my friends have gone to Switzerland or Vail to ski." I said, "It's Reading Week...get reading". I think they spent a lot of time that week, filling a guy's room with newspaper.