[PGT] Oilers 3 Flames 2 in OT

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You keep saying without Wolf we are bottom 5 and no one would say Huska is a good coach.

The expectations prior to the season was a bottom 5 finish. So why would anyone say Huska isn’t a good coach unless up had unrealistic expectations for this team.

Because people don't usually go out of their way to say how good the coach of a bottom 5 team is? People have said ion and off again that Huska should get votes for the Jack Adams. You take Wolf off the team this year and I don't believe a single person would say that. Ergo, without Wolf nobody is saying Hudka is a good coach.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Because people don't usually go out of their way to say how good the coach of a bottom 5 team is? People have said ion and off again that Huska should get votes for the Jack Adams. You take Wolf off the team this year and I don't believe a single person would say that. Ergo, without Wolf nobody is saying Hudka is a good coach.

Brian Burke went out of his way to make sure Hartley wasn’t fired when he hired Treliving and we picked 4th overall.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Brian Burke went out of his way to make sure Hartley wasn’t fired when he hired Treliving and we picked 4th overall.

I didn't say people would be rallying around to fire him, I said nobody would be running around saying how good he is. And I probably wouldn't use Burke or Hartley as a defense if good hockey operations.

Edit: and Hartley had also won a SC and had three conference finals appearances as an NHL head coach. Huska has made the playoffs 1 out of 5 years as a professional head coach and never won a round.

[Enoch Root]

So if the Flames hadn't done as well, people wouldn't be as complimentary of Huska?

Fascinating!

[Rhett44]

I get the Huska criticism. But at the same time he had one of the worst rosters in the league right in the playoff mix until last game.

Regardless of how much of it is goaltending, having this roster in the position they are is extremely impressive.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wolf has had 10 starts March and only 3 games above a 900 save %. 1 was a shutout.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I get the Huska criticism. But at the same time he had one of the worst rosters in the league right in the playoff mix until last game.

Regardless of how much of it is goaltending, having this roster in the position they are is extremely impressive.

i really don't believe this is one of the worst rosters in the NHL. Especially with Frost and Farabee added. bottom 3 D are terrible, but goaltending is borderline great and forward depth is good.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Wolf has had 10 starts March and only 3 games above a 900 save %. 1 was a shutout.

I don't think anyone would argue his play hasn't fallen off a bit. But the Flames are also well out of a playoff spot at the moment.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

i really don't believe this is one of the worst rosters in the NHL. Especially with Frost and Farabee added. bottom 3 D are terrible, but goaltending is borderline great and forward depth is good.

Frost and Farabee are prototypical 3rd line players. We have a dreadful defense on paper, and we have lots of depth at forward, but no 1st liners.

It's a really bad roster as constructed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

This isn’t a good roster lol. We are being led by mid 30 year old players. It’s only depth when you have guys slotted in the right spot. The defence is latched together with waiver picks up.

Frost is playing at a 29 point pace.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The depth isnt even good. Their fourth line is largely guys that are barely full time nhlers

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I don't see the point in being deliberately obtuse. Literally no one is suggesting that the team should lose on purpose or "teach young players to lose".

The argument is more along the lines of the 2 goalies should have split the starts 50/50, instead of pushing our 23 year goalie into a situation where he had to carry an NHL team on his back. There are some signs that it may have been a mistake to put so much pressure on him so early. His last 6 games have all been sub-.900 save % games. He's showing signs of falling back down to Earth after what was an amazing stretch for a young goalie. But ultimately too much was expected of him too soon, and it would have been better to give him a more realistic burden for a 23 year old. In so doing, the team would have been better positioned to secure a top 10 pick in the draft. Instead, we're looking at 2 late first rounders. Could a special player be drafted by the Flames this year? Possible, but not likely.

And there were some arguing that Andersson should have been dealt at the deadline. Honestly, I have a hard time making a case that those people are wrong. Then again, we don't know what kind of return Conny could have got for him, so it's hard to say.

But hopefully you understand why it's annoying to be accused of wanting the team to lose or teach young players to lose. That's not the argument and never has been.

There are plenty of posters here that complain after wins that we will never get talent unless we bottom out.
To ignore the fact that this organization traded away about 1/2 dozen players for picks and prospects and ignore the fact that many posters still complain that the team isn’t rebuilding properly is the obtuse reaction

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

If you take away Wolf's 12 goals saved above expected the Flames would have the 7th worst goal differential in the NHL. For a Tema that doesn't score lots of goals think 12 more goals against could have a pretty significant drop in where they finish.

If you take away those 12 goals, that’s less than I took away to show an already unrealistic 4-8 point drop, and less than I took away to show an extremely unrealistic 16 point drop.

Your opinion just isn’t based on reality.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

There are plenty of posters here that complain after wins that we will never get talent unless we bottom out.
To ignore the fact that this organization traded away about 1/2 dozen players for picks and prospects and ignore the fact that many posters still complain that the team isn’t rebuilding properly is the obtuse reaction

While I disagree with their stance, the annoyance is the need to beat everyone else on the boards over the head with the same thing repeated, over and over and over. As if anyone on these boards is making personnel or team decisions. So instead of letting others just enjoy the team for what it is, they have to force their opinion literally everywhere.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Wolf has had 10 starts March and only 3 games above a 900 save %. 1 was a shutout.

I think the toll of the first season workload and the overall grind has worn him out a bit. That’s definitely a learning experience for a rookie NHL goalie.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you take away those 12 goals, that’s less than I took away to show an already unrealistic 4-8 point drop, and less than I took away to show an extremely unrealistic 16 point drop.

Your opinion just isn’t based on reality.

Flames are 12 points up on bottom 5. Believing Vladar quality goaltending all season could reduce their number of wins by 6 is not some insane opinion that can't exist in this reality. Give me a break.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Flames are 12 points up on bottom 5. Believing Vladar quality goaltending all season could reduce their number of wins by 6 is not some insane opinion that can't exist in this reality. Give me a break.

It’s not insane, it’s just not based on reality. Relax.

It’s more likely that 12 additional goals let in would have no impact on their standing or how many points they have than it is that it would drop them 13 points. If you look at the actual scores of Wolf’s games you’ll see how absurd it sounds.

Those goals would come in games they would win even with an additional goal let in, games where they lost regardless, and then maybe a small handful of games where they would lose 1-2 points.

Realistically 12 additional goals let in drops us 3-6 points… maybe. It might not even change where we are in the standings.

Just look into this stuff and put some critical thought into it before you post. Will sound less silly.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

There are plenty of posters here that complain after wins that we will never get talent unless we bottom out.
To ignore the fact that this organization traded away about 1/2 dozen players for picks and prospects and ignore the fact that many posters still complain that the team isn’t rebuilding properly is the obtuse reaction

A few things

• I speak for myself not anyone else. It's not my job to police what other people are saying.
  
  
• I'm not ignoring anything. Conny has taken the correct approach generally, moving out pending UFAs for picks. But I think it was a mistake to graduate Wolf to #1 NHL goalie status all at once rather than gradually.
  
  
• You didn't respond to any particular person or any particular post, instead you put a generalized statement in the thread responding to a strawman. So as someone who wanted this team to secure a top 10 pick this year, I do think you were taking a swing at my view on things.
  
  
• Hoping the team gets a top 5 or top 10 pick is not the same thing as calling for the team to lose on purpose. Making lineup decisions such as giving more young players/prospects chances to play this year would have made sense. So would splitting the starts 50/50 between Wolf and Vladar. At the end of the day you still instruct your players to give it their all and play to win. But you can make lineup decisions that make it harder to win games, while giving your prospects valuable playing time that they can learn from.

Heading into the season, the Flames weren't projected to be anywhere near the playoff race. But Wolf started stealing games, and the organization couldn't fight the urge to try and make a playoff push. In so doing, they lost a top 10 draft pick. You look at teams that are contenders year in and year out... they all have one thing in common, they have elite players. The Flames aren't going to become contenders until they get elite players. While it's true that sometimes an elite player can be found in the later rounds (ie: Gaudreau, Wolf), it's something that doesn't happen often, and if we're waiting to build a contender from staying in the mushy middle forever, we're going to be waiting an extremely long time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Has anyone actually complained after a win ? Seems like something made up just to whine more.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Has anyone actually complained after a win ?

Yes, especially early on in the season when we never thought they would be in the position they're in and that they were a lock for a lottery team.