Lol, trying to find alternatives to the US vs. placating a tyrant down south is defeatist attitude? You might want to look up the meaning of that word. i don't think it means what you think it means.
Azure's just working on selling his line of t-shirts... "Elbows Down".
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I watched an interview with the CEO of pleasureway camper vans. He went to a meeting in the states to learn how they were dealing with the tariffs. Said they still don’t know how tariffs work - they think the government will pay. It will be a rude awakening for them when the prices rise on all the materials they use.
Lol, trying to find alternatives to the US vs. placating a tyrant down south is defeatist attitude? You might want to look up the meaning of that word. i don't think it means what you think it means.
Guy posts “We won’t win, that plan will never work, we should just stop this and cut a deal” and then goes around calling people who disagree with him “defeatist.”
For sure it’s a word he doesn’t actually understand the meaning of. Which is kind of amazing.
Everyone really enjoys piling on Azure here but the "all in Canada auto manufacturing network" idea seems pretty dumb to me, too.
If the thinking is that we just have to outlast this and everything will go back to normal in a few years (or sooner if he dies), then why make dramatic shifts in the way the industry works? If the thinking is that trade barriers between the USA and Canada is the new normal, or that we should act like it is, then it makes even less sense, because without selling cars to Americans there's no point in manufacturing them in Canada at all - no one else will buy them.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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Everyone really enjoys piling on Azure here but the "all in Canada auto manufacturing network" idea seems pretty dumb to me, too.
If the thinking is that we just have to outlast this and everything will go back to normal in a few years (or sooner if he dies), then why make dramatic shifts in the way the industry works? If the thinking is that trade barriers between the USA and Canada is the new normal, or that we should act like it is, then it makes even less sense, because without selling cars to Americans there's no point in manufacturing them in Canada at all - no one else will buy them.
I could be wrong but I had thought that Canada loosely manufactures around the same number of cars that is sold. Quick google searches suggest we import more from the US than we sell to them.
So in the scenario where you build your own independent industry essentially what you are doing is stopping importing from the US due to Tarrifs and consuming the cars that used to be exported. The whole myth in this is that there is some dramatic trade imbalance in the auto sector.
If we are building non economic east to west pipelines for nation building we should build non economic car plants too. Usually Azure is team build something NOW. Now he is complaining about a do something NOW.
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imagine
how many people would lose jobs if every McDonalds in Canada closed )
None, you think Canadians aren't going to buy burgers because they're not McDonald's? There will be an opportunity for new Canadian companies to fill the gap in the market.
Hell Russia just came out and said they don't need McDonald's back because there is now Russian McDonald's.
Everyone really enjoys piling on Azure here but the "all in Canada auto manufacturing network" idea seems pretty dumb to me, too.
If the thinking is that we just have to outlast this and everything will go back to normal in a few years (or sooner if he dies), then why make dramatic shifts in the way the industry works? If the thinking is that trade barriers between the USA and Canada is the new normal, or that we should act like it is, then it makes even less sense, because without selling cars to Americans there's no point in manufacturing them in Canada at all - no one else will buy them.
I think you're overestimating Canada's car production and underestimating the domestic demand. Canada produced about 1.5M vehicles in 2024 and in that same year, Canadians bought 1.9M vehicles. It wouldn't be remotely seamless, but there is enough domestic demand to cover virtually all of Canada's auto production.
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I doubt Carney actually thinks Canada building up a full domestic car manufacturing base outside of the N American market is likely, I suspect he is just letting Trump know we are in this for the long haul if need be, essentially reflecting Trumps own bat #### crazy ideas back to him, Trump assumed he could repatriate manufacturing back to the US and then Canada and Mexico would just buy from the US without a fuss, it is useful to reflect back his own crazy ideas, because they make sense to Trump (if no one else) telling him we are also going to repatriate our own manufacturing and not buy from the US
This is defeatist thinking and along the same lines of the people running around saying 'elbows up', without thinking of the long-term implications of the US / Canada relationship.
You forget we’re in an election. All these messages are aimed at us, not the US. In the real world there will be discussions and negotiations.
I could be wrong but I had thought that Canada loosely manufactures around the same number of cars that is sold. Quick google searches suggest we import more from the US than we sell to them.
So in the scenario where you build your own independent industry essentially what you are doing is stopping importing from the US due to Tarrifs and consuming the cars that used to be exported. The whole myth in this is that there is some dramatic trade imbalance in the auto sector.
If we are building non economic east to west pipelines for nation building we should build non economic car plants too. Usually Azure is team build something NOW. Now he is complaining about a do something NOW.
The problem is, I believe we produce large numbers of a small number of models. We buy a smaller numbers of a wider range of models. So we either need to get good at low-volume production of many models or adopt a few main national cars.
The problem is, I believe we produce large numbers of a small number of models. We buy a smaller numbers of a wider range of models. So we either need to get good at low-volume production of many models or adopt a few main national cars.
I haven’t looked at numbers, this is just a guess
Yes that’s how trade makes things cheaper. But if this is a long term thing the number of models we produce will change significantly and the types we import will change.
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Everyone really enjoys piling on Azure here but the "all in Canada auto manufacturing network" idea seems pretty dumb to me, too.
If the thinking is that we just have to outlast this and everything will go back to normal in a few years (or sooner if he dies), then why make dramatic shifts in the way the industry works? If the thinking is that trade barriers between the USA and Canada is the new normal, or that we should act like it is, then it makes even less sense, because without selling cars to Americans there's no point in manufacturing them in Canada at all - no one else will buy them.
And if we bring BYD here, it'll kill whatever is left of the auto industry.
Which of course is never going to happen because BYD has zero reason to build manufacturing here for vehicles if they can't sell into the US. In fact it would just likely result in even higher tariffs.
So we are not going to outlast anyone. There could be close to 500,000 jobs affected by all of this.
Interestingly if we were going to do this, EV's would make a lot more sense because of their fewer parts and complexity. Our advantage of cheap aluminum and other inputs would help. And we don't need to create a car company. I'm not sure if the Big 3 would work given US ties, but Asian or European manufacturers could bring a few here. A smart design built on a universal EV platform could have several models from the same factory.
We've tossed over $750 million in EV subsidies to buyers(but it's also a subsidy to the seller) for foreign vehicles. Re-work our programs to move money in this direction instead. Must be built in Canada to qualify for them, and they could be increased in amount.
I don't see this as an impossible thing with the right people in charge.
There's already a decent variety of vehicles built in Canada.
Honda CR-V, Civic, the Toyota RAV4, Lexus RX, Ford Edge, Ford GT, Chrysler Pacifica, and Dodge Charger Daytona plus Chevy Silverado, chevy Equinox.
That's a pretty good spread. A number of small/midsize SUVs, small car, minivan, truck, a couple of sporty cars.
If those models were 25% cheaper than the competition their market share would go way up. It's missing a larger car and 3 row suv, but is otherwise pretty complete by vehicle form.
The problem is a lot of parts for those come from US facilities. And for any of the American manufacturers, they'll be moving their stuff to the much larger US market if this carries on. Are the engines for Honda and Toyota's made in Canada or the US? If the US I guess they could be shipped here from Japanese facilities.
