Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[CliffFletcher]

I’m not sure why posters on this forum downplay the evidence dysfunction on the city’s transit and streets. We want Calgary to be more like European cities, don’t we? Well you don’t routinely see whacked-out addicts and the mentally ill staggering around trains and public parks in Copenhagen and Lisbon. They don’t allow that kind of anti-social behaviour to take root - that’s why their city centres are appealing places to reside and spend time in, and why there’s broad public support for urban projects and public transit.

* Tolerance of public disorder and drug use

* Support for public transit and shared urban spaces

Pick one

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Joborule

They've already tweaked the pilot to keep 3 cars on Saturdays, and 2 cars on Sundays.



https://www.calgarytransit.com/plans...ar-trains.html

This seems like more work than it should be, having to account for events and adding floaters.

Just run 3-cars on weekends all the time and make fares half price. If fares were half price, I'd take the train with my family to BMO Center instead of driving and paying for parking.

You want to make your trains full all the time. The fuller the trains, the less disorder on them.

[Jimmy Stang]

^ While we're at it, I'd like to see some sort of variable pricing. Digital fares should enable some sort of zone-based pricing. From my home base of Tuscany, it costs me the same to go to one stop to Crowfoot on a Sunday as it does to go all the way to the other end of the line in Somerset during weekday rush hour.

Crowfoot costs too much (relatively speaking) for a short trip, so I'll just drive. Somerset costs too much in time, so I'll drive.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a regular train rider. I'm very occasional and certainly off-peak because I work from home. But I am also walking distance to the train and would utilize it more if it made sense to.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ While we're at it, I'd like to see some sort of variable pricing. Digital fares should enable some sort of zone-based pricing. From my home base of Tuscany, it costs me the same to go to one stop to Crowfoot on a Sunday as it does to go all the way to the other end of the line in Somerset during weekday rush hour.

Crowfoot costs too much (relatively speaking) for a short trip, so I'll just drive. Somerset costs too much in time, so I'll drive.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a regular train rider. I'm very occasional and certainly off-peak because I work from home. But I am also walking distance to the train and would utilize it more if it made sense to.

Digital fares yes and really, we should be loading our transit accounts with money, $20, $50 etc... and then subtracting it whenever we get on a bus/train. Like paying for parking using the parkplus app. Having to digitally buy a single ticket every time, and that ticket might expire!, is stupid.

But you'd need subway style gates to scan in and out of to enforce variable pricing.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’m not sure why posters on this forum downplay the evidence dysfunction on the city’s transit and streets. We want Calgary to be more like European cities, don’t we? Well you don’t routinely see whacked-out addicts and the mentally ill staggering around trains and public parks in Copenhagen and Lisbon. They don’t allow that kind of anti-social behaviour to take root - that’s why their city centres are appealing places to reside and spend time in, and why there’s broad public support for urban projects and public transit.

* Tolerance of public disorder and drug use

* Support for public transit and shared urban spaces

Pick one

The big thing that's missing is how well a country like Denmark addresses these issues before they become "disorder". I don't know the first thing about (insert European country here) and their approach to treating mental health and addiction, but perhaps they are more proactive that we are here.

By the time it becomes an issue on public transit, the response is no longer proactive, but reactive.

I'm not against "enforcement" of public disorder either, as people have a right to safety in public. But the guy who gets removed from the train platform just ends up in different places indefinitely, so we're just pushing it around instead of solving it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ While we're at it, I'd like to see some sort of variable pricing. Digital fares should enable some sort of zone-based pricing. From my home base of Tuscany, it costs me the same to go to one stop to Crowfoot on a Sunday as it does to go all the way to the other end of the line in Somerset during weekday rush hour.

Crowfoot costs too much (relatively speaking) for a short trip, so I'll just drive. Somerset costs too much in time, so I'll drive.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a regular train rider. I'm very occasional and certainly off-peak because I work from home. But I am also walking distance to the train and would utilize it more if it made sense to.

In Edmonton, a day pass covers a whole family, and lasts for the whole weekend. Why not do that here? $11 (or whatever it is) and the whole family can ride the train together for the whole weekend. Going to the zoo by train makes a lot more sense when you buy that one pass, and it covers everyone for both the ride there and the ride back, and also any other riding you do on the weekend.

Whereas in Calgary, to ride to the zoo, you need to buy everyone fares for the way there, and everyone fares for the way back. So people end up driving, becasue transit fare would be $25 or more.

EDIT:

It appears the Edmonton is phasing that out.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Having to digitally buy a single ticket every time, and that ticket might expire!, is stupid.

But you'd need subway style gates to scan in and out of to enforce variable pricing.

While I also hate that tickets expire- I get why. They don't want you sitting on a single ticket and then activating it just as you see the transit cops approach. At least this way gets people buying one ticket per week I guess.

As for the need for gates, you could just have scanners for the code on your phone. Scan in at Tusacany, scan out a Crowfoot and the fare is removed from your pre-loaded money.

[para transit fellow]

zone can be tricky as it requires tap on tap off activity from passengers - always seems difficult to educate passengers

What if Calgary Transit implemented fare-caps?
.
"Transit fare capping is a fare payment model that gives riders the savings of a monthly, weekly, or daily pass without having to pay the full cost of that pass up front. It allows riders to pay as they go, knowing that the system will automatically stop debiting the cost of single ride fares once they meet the threshold amount of the recurrent (or unlimited) pass."

https://genfare.com/blog/what-is-fare-capping/

[Jimmy Stang]

I'm not sure that zone pricing would be much different than what we have now using the honour system (and random enforcement).

I buy a $3.80, or a $1.25 short ticket for one stop. Both through the app. Both are subject to enforcement.

A fare evader will evade regardless. I buy a ticket because it is the right thing to do, even knowing that enforcement is unlikely.

The difference is, I put a small amount into the system's revenue vs. putting $0 in when I drive instead. The fare evader puts in $0 no matter what.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

In Edmonton, a day pass covers a whole family, and lasts for the whole weekend. Why not do that here? $11 (or whatever it is) and the whole family can ride the train together for the whole weekend. Going to the zoo by train makes a lot more sense when you buy that one pass, and it covers everyone for both the ride there and the ride back, and also any other riding you do on the weekend.

Whereas in Calgary, to ride to the zoo, you need to buy everyone fares for the way there, and everyone fares for the way back. So people end up driving, becasue transit fare would be $25 or more.

EDIT:

It appears the Edmonton is phasing that out.

Calgary has a weekend family day pass. It just doesn’t show up in the MyFare app until Sat/Sun.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This seems like more work than it should be, having to account for events and adding floaters.

Just run 3-cars on weekends all the time and make fares half price. If fares were half price, I'd take the train with my family to BMO Center instead of driving and paying for parking.

You want to make your trains full all the time. The fuller the trains, the less disorder on them.

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

In Edmonton, a day pass covers a whole family, and lasts for the whole weekend. Why not do that here? $11 (or whatever it is) and the whole family can ride the train together for the whole weekend. Going to the zoo by train makes a lot more sense when you buy that one pass, and it covers everyone for both the ride there and the ride back, and also any other riding you do on the weekend.

Whereas in Calgary, to ride to the zoo, you need to buy everyone fares for the way there, and everyone fares for the way back. So people end up driving, becasue transit fare would be $25 or more.

EDIT:

It appears the Edmonton is phasing that out.

Originally Posted by Wormius

Calgary has a weekend family day pass. It just doesn’t show up in the MyFare app until Sat/Sun.

Wormius beat me to it. CT has a weekend family pass, $17 and valid for the day.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

^ While we're at it, I'd like to see some sort of variable pricing. Digital fares should enable some sort of zone-based pricing. From my home base of Tuscany, it costs me the same to go to one stop to Crowfoot on a Sunday as it does to go all the way to the other end of the line in Somerset during weekday rush hour.

Crowfoot costs too much (relatively speaking) for a short trip, so I'll just drive. Somerset costs too much in time, so I'll drive.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a regular train rider. I'm very occasional and certainly off-peak because I work from home. But I am also walking distance to the train and would utilize it more if it made sense to.

Variable pricing is pointless. It doesn't do anything except annoy people.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Variable pricing is pointless. It doesn't do anything except annoy people.

I am sure with apps and such you can use the location to verify somethings. Like someone said use the same sort of format as the parking app. You start your ride and then end your ride. If you are doing a long haul to caps out at the price of the ticket. If you are still riding on the train or your location is going down the tracks you could send a push asking if you want to continue your transit session.

You might get a bit more compliance with tickets if your trip is only for a couple stops and costs you a portion of the price. It also gets the person to think they are saving money. Don't people right now just ride and only pay for tickets that on the app when the transit cops come on?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Variable pricing is pointless. It doesn't do anything except annoy people.

I think one from a few years ago was basically halving the price of monthly passes during the summer. I don’t know how much the city makes in the hours between and after the rush hour commutes, but I wonder if they could just make it free with little impact to revenue.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’m not sure why posters on this forum downplay the evidence dysfunction on the city’s transit and streets. We want Calgary to be more like European cities, don’t we? Well you don’t routinely see whacked-out addicts and the mentally ill staggering around trains and public parks in Copenhagen and Lisbon. They don’t allow that kind of anti-social behaviour to take root - that’s why their city centres are appealing places to reside and spend time in, and why there’s broad public support for urban projects and public transit.

* Tolerance of public disorder and drug use

* Support for public transit and shared urban spaces

Pick one

When I read a post like GioforPM I just can't understand the need to accuse others of overblowing this while burying their head deep in the same.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I am sure with apps and such you can use the location to verify somethings. Like someone said use the same sort of format as the parking app. You start your ride and then end your ride. If you are doing a long haul to caps out at the price of the ticket. If you are still riding on the train or your location is going down the tracks you could send a push asking if you want to continue your transit session.

You might get a bit more compliance with tickets if your trip is only for a couple stops and costs you a portion of the price. It also gets the person to think they are saving money. Don't people right now just ride and only pay for tickets that on the app when the transit cops come on?

But how do these smaller fares cover the cost of the installation/ operation of the software system that calculates the distance / processes the discounted payment?

... all so a modest percentage of riders can save money on the short trips?

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The "windows" are way up top, so he was standing on a seat?

Back to 3 cars on Saturday. Great job with the math work CT.

Ya he put in a lot of effort I will give him that. He would also open the door at stops take a hit and come back on.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

But how do these smaller fares cover the cost of the installation/ operation of the software system that calculates the distance / processes the discounted payment?

... all so a modest percentage of riders can save money on the short trips?

I think you also charge more for longer trips. As for cost, not materially more than what our systems cost now. We already have phone scanners on every bus. Instead of that system you could have just installed Toronto’s .

[para transit fellow]

Basically, you suggest others should pay more so occasional riders going a few lrt stops have the opportunity to pay less instead of taking their own vehicle?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

Basically, you suggest others should pay more so occasional riders going a few lrt stops have the opportunity to pay less instead of taking their own vehicle?

I think the argument is they'd pay something into the system instead of taking their private vehicle. There's zero marginal cost to adding someone to a partially full ctrain, so any revenue is a net benefit and given scanners exist it should be a software change only.