Vladar Discussion

[Toonage]

Vladar at $1.25M for a year or two would be fine here. Good insurance.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Vladar at $1.25M for a year or two would be fine here. Good insurance.

Yes, and for what it's worth, Vladar is still younger than pretty much all the other UFA options. Might have some upside in him yet - or at least no regression.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It looks like a pretty even start split to me, at least against the top 10 teams in the NHL:

Opponent  Wolf  Vladar
WSH         1      1
WPG         2      1
DAL         1      1
CAR         1      1
VGK         0      2
COL         2      0
FLA         1      1
TBL         1      1
TOR         2      0
EDM         0      2

I think what you will find is the timing of those starts. In the first half of the season, Vladar was taking the harder starts.

To open the season, Vladar gets the opener on the road against the Canucks while Wolf gets the home opener against the Flyers. Vladar gets the road game against the Oilers and Wolf gets the home game against the Blackhawks. Wolf gets the Pens, Vladar gets the Canes. Vladar gets Vegas and Wolf gets UHC.

Then we get a home stand were Vladar gets both the Devils and the Oilers followed by Wolf getting the Canadiens and Bruins on the road. Wolf gets the home stand against NYI and NYR, Vladar gets the Wild.

It is interesting to look at but you can definintely see the trend where Wolf is getting the softer starts at the start of the season with the consideration being first opponent and then trying to give him home games. The coaches were definitely looking to give Wolf the best chances to win games and build confidence (which meant Vladar was taking the tougher games).

My feeling is that this went on until the end of January and then we see Wolf getting the Caps game at home. Then even more so with Wolf getting the Leafs, Avs, and Kraken in that home stand in Feb is probably where the kid gloves came off. These were all still home games, but they were home games against tough opponents.

So, I think Vladar has done a good job this season. Sure, his stats could be better but I am not convinced that is a fair assessment considering the starts he was given and the team playing in front of him. He often got the traveling team and/or a tired team on a back to back.

In the end, if Vladar and Wolf have a good relationship then I would probably offer Vladar a contract to stay another season with a bit of a raise to help Wolf through the sophmore season.

[Robbob]

I think that is just it. Vladar has always had good relationships with the the other goalie. I think that is worth something. It isn't like his next contract will be big. Even with Cooley on a one way, the total cap hit for the goalies will be sub 5M

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think that is just it. Vladar has always had good relationships with the the other goalie. I think that is worth something. It isn't like his next contract will be big. Even with Cooley on a one way, the total cap hit for the goalies will be sub 5M

While being good in the locker room is worth something, being good is worth more.

I would hope Calgary can find a better backup than what he has provided.

[442scotty]

I hope Vladar can keep up the good work. Wolf is looking like he’s fading a bit, leaving his kryptonite spots open where he wasn’t earlier on

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

While being good in the locker room is worth something, being good is worth more.

I would hope Calgary can find a better backup than what he has provided.

His numbers have improved a lot.

Using moneypuck GSAA/60 he is now ranked 38th out of 55 in the league (20 appearances or more).

If you're starter is ranked 38th you have an issue (Wolf is 13th), but your back up sitting 6 spots behind where the last starter should be doesn't seem like a poor back up to me.

And if his hip adjustment is over, there could still be upside.

[gvitaly]

^ That's pretty much how I remember it, and I would argue that Huska was leaning towards Vladar being the #1a with a pretty even start split to start the season, until Wolf's body of work, and the playoff race cemented him as the #1.

As you mentioned, Wolf started getting the majority of the tough matchups after the new year, so I thought it evened out as a whole, and Wolf wasn't as sheltered as some here claim. That's why I posted the numbers, so anyone can draw the conclusions for him/herself.

---

Personally, I'm ready to move on from Vladar. The fact that he couldn't even get the Flames a 3rd at the deadline also speaks of how the rest of the league sees him. He was in the bottom third of the league in goals saved above expected in each of his last 3 years. Analytics suggests he has one of the worst glove hands in the league, and he's pretty inconsistent. He make several great saves a game but lets in at least 1 stinker.

As I mentioned I'd rather see Lyon, Forsberg, Samsonov, or Cooley get the backup job next year, but I also think that next year will be mostly a write off so I don't care too much either way.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Personally, I'm ready to move on from Vladar. The fact that he couldn't even get the Flames a 3rd at the deadline also speaks of how the rest of the league sees him. He was in the bottom third of the league in goals saved above expected in each of his last 3 years. Analytics suggests he has one of the worst glove hands in the league, and he's pretty inconsistent. He make several great saves a game but lets in at least 1 stinker.

As I mentioned I'd rather see Lyon, Forsberg, Samsonov, or Cooley get the backup job next year, but I also think that next year will be mostly a write off so I don't care too much either way.

To me it comes down to where you lean.

Last year he had less appearances and was 62nd in GSAA (league's worst backup).

This year more starts, and positive momentum in his second half.

If the hip surgery played a role then you're moving on from a guy on the cusp of moving into an above average backup / below average starter role.

If it's a 10 game blip, no loss.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

I hope Vladar can keep up the good work. Wolf is looking like he’s fading a bit, leaving his kryptonite spots open where he wasn’t earlier on

I think its workload. He's played a lot, and you have to be tip top behind this team just to have a chance to win.

It's a lot for a rookie to take on.

50-50 starts coming out of the break was maybe the way to go.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

His numbers have improved a lot.

Using moneypuck GSAA/60 he is now ranked 38th out of 55 in the league (20 appearances or more).

If you're starter is ranked 38th you have an issue (Wolf is 13th), but your back up sitting 6 spots behind where the last starter should be doesn't seem like a poor back up to me.

And if his hip adjustment is over, there could still be upside.

And he'll only be 28 next year.

I had a bit of a chat over Twitter last night with Darren Haynes about this. I think it's worth looking at keeping him around a couple more years. Beyond all the positives listed here about the two goalies' relationship, it's also hard to find an NHL-capable goalie who can fill in well if the starter gets injured.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

To me it comes down to where you lean.

Last year he had less appearances and was 62nd in GSAA (league's worst backup).

This year more starts, and positive momentum in his second half.

If the hip surgery played a role then you're moving on from a guy on the cusp of moving into an above average backup / below average starter role.

If it's a 10 game blip, no loss.

That's fair, I just don't see Vladar as an above average backup at this point.

I also don't expect the Flames to sign Vladar, or any other backup to anything longer than a 2 year contract. I see it as a mostly inconsequential decision. All the UFA backups this year are pretty meh and are in the same tier as Vladar, with slightly different strength and weaknesses. I guess I just enjoy the excitement and speculation that comes from watching new players wear the Flaming C.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'd be for keeping Vladar around as a back-up to Wolf.

I am not sure if it matters, but next year Cooley is on a one-way deal so he will be making an NHL salary no matter what, albeit the league minimum.

I suspect the plan was probably to let Vladar walk and save a little bit of cap space by bringing Cooley in as back-up next season. Cooley is such an up and down goalie though. When he is good, he is really good, but when he is bad, he is really bad. He is somewhat unorthodox and the idea was probably to get the coaches working with him in the AHL to train him out of bad habits. Given how much he has fallen off though, maybe it isn't panning out.

[Ba'alzamon]

Once again: It's a myth that Wolf has been sheltered.

5v5
All situations

Wolf faces more shots, more high danger shots, more rush attempts, more rebound attempts, and a shorter average shot distance--and, consequently, has a higher (not lower) expected goals against.

The Flames may be trying to shelter Wolf, but they aren't succeeding.

[Geeoff]

Personally, I'd go more with more of a veteran goalie like Andersen or Allen from the UFA list. We'll have cap space to sign one of them to a 1 or 2 year deal

[Teroy]

Keep Vladar. This unjustified dislike for him is ridiculous.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

His numbers have improved a lot.

Using moneypuck GSAA/60 he is now ranked 38th out of 55 in the league (20 appearances or more).

If you're starter is ranked 38th you have an issue (Wolf is 13th), but your back up sitting 6 spots behind where the last starter should be doesn't seem like a poor back up to me.

And if his hip adjustment is over, there could still be upside.

Shouldn't you be comparing backups to other backups.

[Reggie Dunlop]

They would have moved Vladar at the trade deadline if they thought Devin Cooley could have seamlessly slipped into the backup role. It sorta looked like the plan when he was signed. As such, it didn't happen and that's probably on Cooley.

Cooley will probably pass through waivers next season and stay in the AHL. It's not like he'll be eating that much salary. He and perhaps Sergeev will be with the Wranglers and another NHL backup will be acquired should Vladar seek greener pastures.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Keep Vladar. This unjustified dislike for him is ridiculous.

He had been pretty poor this season until the last month or so. His numbers are average at best over his career.

I would be fine to keep him but no need to do anything crazy...offer him a couple years at 1.5 per or something. If he goes elsewhere its no big deal.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Keep Vladar. This unjustified dislike for him is ridiculous.

I would say the unjustified liking for Vladar is more ridiculous

Many more positive posters regarding Vladar then negative on this board

Personally I don’t care either way. I don’t think he’s very good , but I also expect the Flames to be bad next year , so the backup effectively is irrelevant.

He seems to be a good teammate and professional