Live Earth

[CaptainCraig]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Governments are doing that though, there is already pressure which has lead to incentives for fuel efficient vehicles and a tax placed on SUVs. Really does a concert however change much in people's minds... no it just means that they got to listen to their favorite band. Do you think people turned into Live Aide because of people in Africa?

People for the most part will have turned in to watch their favorite performer and not because they have some undying love for the enviroment that will be confirmed by a lead singer

You kind of missed the whole idea of these awareness concerts then. Your right, most people do turn into see their favorite artists, therefore giving the platform for the Awareness Message to get out. If that's the case with most people at the any of these concerts, then mission accomplished.

Kind of how Bono uses his celebrity power as a platform to spread awarness of 3rd World Debt.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCraig

You kind of missed the whole idea of these awareness concerts then. Your right, most people do turn into see their favorite artists, therefore giving the platform for the Awareness Message to get out. If that's the case with most people at the any of these concerts, then mission accomplished.

Kind of how Bono uses his celebrity power as a platform to spread awarness of 3rd World Debt.

Yup he been at that for 20 years
Last time i checked there is still a problem.
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LUDOVICO SCARFIOTTI

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Its like you father smoke in hand telling his kids never to smoke.

Hypothetical...

If your father smoked, and was dying of lung cancer at 54...and you were old enough to understand the effects smoking has on the body, if he told you that you shouldn't smoke because it will kill you, would you tell him to shutup because it's a 'bad method of delivery'?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Do you think people turned into Live Aide because of people in Africa?

But that's exactly it. How do you grab these people and bring them in?

In university, I was part of the environmental group on campus. This was way back when recycling was just catching on. There was massive amounts of garbage being produced out of the dorms, but nobody was demanding that the university start a recycling program.

So what we did was organize a free movie night in the cafeteria - and usually, but not always, the movies had some kind of environmental theme. After the movie we would give them a pamphlet about what our group was about and what we needed them to do (sign our petition to start recyling on campus, phone the physical plant and ask why we didn't have a recyling program like most of the other universities, etc).

No, the movies didn't change peoples minds. It was just the draw to bring in people that otherwise wouldn't be interested in the issue. But we got a lot of people supporting us and we ended up with a fair number of new members from these movie nights. And yes, the next year the university brought in the recycling program.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCraig

You have some very good points & I find it very interesting what Germany is doing. That is great.

However how is this new "pop culture" movement bad. I agree with you about the show to some extent now, but are you talking about the new movement in general? If so that boggles my mind. That almost reminds me of the person who wore a Tampa jersey to the Redmile just to be different.

It's not "new" at all. Global superstars trying to band together to promote a message of change is decades old. I'm saying it has less than a drop in the bucket affect. Minimal to no impact. And I'm not against the movement, but the elevation of global warming into some kind of incontravertible religion when there is plenty of strong science showing otherwise...

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...4068db11f4&p=4

In the end, I feel that the issue of global warming is more sensationalistic and political than fair, accurate, and objective. There was a thread earlier about how many prominent scientists and faculties are being shunned from publishing and grants just because they hold a contrary view to what is currently politically popular -> that global warming is a genuine and human affectable phenomenon that is spiraling out of control. I've very liberal, but to me, what many politicans and activists are spouting in the U.S. sounds awfully like the same "End Times" preaching you get from religious fundamentalists with Al Gore as the messiah.

I do agree though, that if everybody does their part, we can have direct and measurable positive effects on the environment. I just don't agree with any of the tactics or direction this movement has taken...such as the correlation of a few decades of scientific evidence about the weather with catastrophic scare tactics implying that heat waves and freak weather like hurricanes are all caused by global warming...we human beings have been on earth less than 1% of it's existence, we still don't know that much concrete information about global weather patterns over the course of centuries or millenia. Heck, aren't we a few thousand years overdue for another global ice-age already? Maybe global warming is saving all our lives.

Additionally, I feel that the message is mixed and misguided...for instance the issue brought up about the anti-nuclear power t-shirts. Nuclear power really is the clean solution to our energy problems. It produces exponentially more power and is much more efficient than coal and the by-products are steam and a small amount of nuclear waste which is explicitly stored and treated safetly...instead of CO2 simply pumped out of a smokestack.

[CaptainCraig]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Yup he been at that for 20 years
Last time i checked there is still a problem.

And your point.... At least he trying to do something & maybe one day it will have an effect on it. What are you trying to say. Are you telling me Nelson Mandella & Martin Luther King wasted their time? These things take decades to overcome. All of these major issues won't change over night Give your head a shake....

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...4068db11f4&p=4

Mmm.... the National Post printing *ANYTHING* at all that they can find countering Global Warming. I'm just shocked.

Anyhow, let's say there is a 50% chance that global warming is man-made is going to cause massive flooding in 50 years. No, let's drop that to 30%. No make that 10%. If we do nothing, what is the worst that could happen? Massive amounts of death and destruction.

Let's say that we do something, reduce our CO2 by using more solar power, more wind power, more hydro power, conservation and efficiency such as improving performance of hybrids. What's the worst that could happen?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Mmm.... the National Post printing *ANYTHING* at all that they can find countering Global Warming. I'm just shocked.

Anyhow, let's say there is a 50% chance that global warming is man-made is going to cause massive flooding in 50 years. No, let's drop that to 30%. No make that 10%. If we do nothing, what is the worst that could happen? Massive amounts of death and destruction.

Let's say that we do something, reduce our CO2 by using more solar power, more wind power, more hydro power, conservation and efficiency such as improving performance of hybrids. What's the worst that could happen?

is that all you got? can you not find an article that proves otherwise?

Im all for that as well, just because i dont like gore the attention whore, agree with Hack&Lube, dont like live earth ect... doesnt mean i am anti- climate change or do not believe in using alternative sources of energy.

Not sure how old you are, but the world has been talking about this for decades and things have improved and will continue to improve. Live Earth really was uneccesary and just contributed to the problem
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Nervous System Disorders Forums

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Not sure how old you are, but the world has been talking about this for decades and things have improved and will continue to improve. Live Earth really was uneccesary and just contributed to the problem

How have things improved? Last I checked, CO2 emissions were higher than ever.

And I switched to being a vegetarian when I saw the difference in CO2 created by a meat based diet vs a vegetarian diet when I was 20 in 1992. So, yes, I know this has been discussed for decades, but I haven't seen anything improve at all here. Europe is doing a decent job.

[Juventus3]

Mel it may be wise to support events that bring the topic of a healthier environment to the table, even if you disagree with it on some levels. You and the others on that side of the debate have made it clear that the cause and effect of this event is, in your view, a step backwards. I understand where you come from but refuse to believe that live earth will not change the minds of even a few of the billions (1,000,000,000's) watching.

Society is definetely becoming more tuned into this issue, and if nothing else the scaled success of Live Earth shows that.

Good talkin to you guys, but I'm out for the night!

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

Actually hollywood has become one of the most environmentally friendly areas in California. But hey, you're right...all celebrities are automaticallly morons. You almost sound jealous of their success...Did fallout boy steal your song?

Um, did I say all celebrities? The comment was directly attributed to the performers.

Hollywood talks a good game, but their excesses far outweigh what little they actually do. What good does it do to own a hybrid when you live in a 40 room house, have homes littered throughout the world and travel around on private jets. A mansion leaves a larger carbon footprint than a one bedroom apartment does it not. This event is for image enhancement and ego masturbation. They accomplished nothing yesterday.

I'm not jealous of their success, I'm proud to be a capitalist and I'm all for what anyone of us can get. I, however, have a big problem with hypocrites telling the rest of the world how to live theirs lives when the fact is they do more damage to the environment than you or I do.

For the record, I coudn't name you a Fallout Boy song.

[Kool Keef]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

More people voted for American Idol than the US elections. Government doesn't exist in a lot of people's minds.

It's no secret that politics isn't on the minds of a lot of Americans, but that stat is completely bogus. You can vote more than once and you don't have to be a citizen to vote.

[insert Bush stealing the election joke here]

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

Mel it may be wise to support events that bring the topic of a healthier environment to the table, even if you disagree with it on some levels. You and the others on that side of the debate have made it clear that the cause and effect of this event is, in your view, a step backwards. I understand where you come from but refuse to believe that live earth will not change the minds of even a few of the billions (1,000,000,000's) watching.

Society is definetely becoming more tuned into this issue, and if nothing else the scaled success of Live Earth shows that.

Good talkin to you guys, but I'm out for the night!

what debate and what side am i on? I am not sure we dicussed that.
I am all for reducing my carbon footprint
I dont know what is causing the warming and neither do the scientists
Live Earth was a terrible idea.
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Suzuki Gsr600

[Juventus3]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

what debate and what side am i on? I am not sure we dicussed that.
I am all for reducing my carbon footprint
I dont know what is causing the warming and neither do the scientists
Live Earth was a terrible idea.

ah yes the 'it's not happening debate'. I agree that we don't know what's causing it, or what type of damage it is doing...but is it not better to conserve no matter what the reason?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Juventus3

ah yes the 'it's not happening debate'. I agree that we don't know what's causing it, or what type of damage it is doing...but is it not better to conserve no matter what the reason?

i totally agree, also never said it wasnt happening, just said there really isnt a concensus. And really i think its not a matter if we are contributing it's how much we are....there is nothing wrong with conserving, i try and do my part..
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Morphine rehab advice

[CrusaderPi]

I think the point of a concert like this is for the people who are trying to do something getting the chance to feel good about themselves for A)thinking they are actually part of a solution and B) they get to feel superior to those who don't give a crap.

Kudos to you who are part of a solution. Give me a call when something interesting happens.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Oi.

It's funny, you know.

The same people screaming that they want their SUVs want the environmentalists to live in caves.

I am an environmentalist. My CO2 footprint is probably half of what most peoples are. I have never owned a car... I walk, bike and take public transit. I have a clothes line that I use instead of the dryer. My house has been using the flourescent bulbs for 5 years now. Yet when I tell someone I'm going to watch the game on TV tonight I get "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! IT USES ELECTRICITY! HYPOCRITE!". Now I know my friends are joking, but still. It's a common thing for people that are doing NOTHING for the environment to just look for ways to mock those that actually give a damn.

As an environmentalist, I'm not advocating the end of rock concerts. So why the hell would be against one that is being put on as a means to educate and gather support on this issue?

Do you have solar panal to power your house, passive heating windows and LED lights too?

[HOZ]