The Tariff Thread

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Trade barriers always protect some jobs on one side of the barrier while hurting things overall. At some point we need to decide whether we're an actual country where the overall interests of all Canadians are the deciding factor. If we can't get there under the current circumstances we never will.

With you up to the last sentence, this is not the time any more than COVID was. You're just going to have to prop some people and industries up a little in the meantime to ensure that everyone's pulling in the same direction, that is the reality.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

With you up to the last sentence, this is not the time any more than COVID was. You're just going to have to prop some people and industries up a little in the meantime to ensure that everyone's pulling in the same direction, that is the reality.

I think it would be better to pull down the trade barriers and subsidize those who are affected. Ie 2 years of salary+retraining for affected workers, something like that.

Just leaving it until the crisis is over guarantees it will stay forever.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by WideReceiver

I take delight in seeing all of these other countries implementing tariffs on the U.S. Strength in numbers.

However, I do miss the time when tariffs were used as economic strategy, not a war tactic.

Yep. We're heading for a global recession (depression?) at this point. Thanks Trump.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Things are definitely slower, more concerning and hectic. My previous post was poorly written in the sense that since November when Trump actually won the election and we knew that tariffs were an almost certainty, Canada, Canada's leaders and even the political opposition have done nothing within their control to increase competitiveness. We have had a long time to make serious changes but it's this small, micky mouse stuff that has come out thus far.

Considering the economic catastrophe that has materialized with this new administration now or in the near future, I don't see a sense in urgency for reform.

I understand the enormity of the situation, this is about as serious of an economic collapse as it gets. My concern with Canada and Canadian's is the level of stupidity isn't allowing them to move at breakneck speed for reform.

Canada, Canadian business, Canadian equity managers and our governments are just not ready for it.

OK, well my apologies for this...this could probably go into the gear grinder thread, but here goes. No matter what happened with the tariffs, we were about to hear "I told you so!" and "I knew it all along!". There is nothing that grinds my gears in my line of work more than this, but it was inevitable. If the tariffs never came to pass, it would be because "we all knew it was a negotiating tactic". And if the tariffs get implemented and we get the economic mess, it would be "well, Trump said he would and you could've prepared!"

Now, neither of those scenarios has actually played out...we both got the tariffs and we didn't (Schrodingers Tariffs!), and yet here we are subjected to "I told you so" anyway. Gimme a break. First of all, no one I saw was calling for 30 day tariff peek-a-boo, and while I read an abnormal amount of these things, if you can show me one person who called that I'll concede that I'm wrong.

But more importantly, you speak of this economic devastation. The TSX is down about 0.77% this year. Obviously, we're 2.5 months in, and that number means nothing, but that's absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. How should we expect our leaders to react in the face of that drawdown?

And yeah, those tariffs were first mentioned during the campaign and then again in late November. Since then, the Canadian economy has not plummeted, unemployment is not skyrocketing, and things are not wildly out of control. We know that the Canadian government has plans to provide enormous relief packages to people if those tariffs are implemented, and they have a plan. But you know...the tariffs haven't actually been in for any length of time. It was two days of tariffs and now we're back in the threat stage. How would you like to see the government take meaningful action against this?

Originally Posted by Azure

Tariffs are the oh crap what will we do I guess we will match response.

The better response is consumer boycott of as many American based products as financially and humanly possible. That is what really makes people fill the pitch down south and supports Canadian business instead.

[CroFlames]

Someone should ask Leavitt something like this: If you are right and tariffs are a tax hike on foreign countries and a break for America, what is stopping foreign countries from cutting off their supply to us, and refusing to buy our exports?

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Someone should ask Leavitt something like this: If you are right and tariffs are a tax hike on foreign countries and a break for America, what is stopping foreign countries from cutting off their supply to us, and refusing to buy our exports?

Careful, she hates tough questions. She may ban said reporter.

[direwolf]

Ford just mentioned on CBC that their meeting with Lutnick was “productive and positive”, which probably doesn’t mean squat considering the clowns we’re dealing with, not to mention Trump earlier blathering on about not backing off tariffs and talking about how super cool it would be if we were a state.

Trade Minister LeBlanc will apparently be doing a presser in a little bit.

[chummer]

Ya Ford said it was "extremely productive" and they're meeting again next week.

[Looch City]

When is a pre-emptive military attack on this #### hole country plausible?

Can we just start blasting? Send in the bears or moose herds?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

Tariffs are the oh crap what will we do I guess we will match response.

The better response is consumer boycott of as many American based products as financially and humanly possible. That is what really makes people fill the pitch down south and supports Canadian business instead.

When all this is over we better remember that free trade and specialization actually make us richer (through access to export markets) and give us better and cheaper goods as consumers (imports). There is a danger that this Canadian protectionist sentiment outlives its usefulness.

But for now, both is the correct answer. Tariffs are the government's way to push consumers to participate in avoidance of American goods.

[direwolf]

Sounds like the meeting today was a positive and cordial one, and I'm glad that they're planning to continue talks next week. Seems like the American side might be trying to find an off-ramp for Trump to maybe roll back at least some of the tariffs so that the U.S. economy doesn't completely tank.


Of course it all means nothing if they can't convince the orange s***stain.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...gton-1.7483312

In a separate news conference with reporters at the Canadian embassy, Finance Minister Dominic LeBlanc and Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne said they could not say much about what was discussed in private today, only that things seem to be headed in the right direction.


LeBlanc said they had "a very constructive discussion" with Lutnick and U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer and their respective teams.


The finance minister said he and the other Canadians made it known that Trump's tariffs on some Canadian goods and his separate regime on Canadian steel and aluminum should be removed.


Champagne said he also stressed just how damaging those tariffs are to workers and businesses on both sides of the border — not to mention the stock market.
But LeBlanc said the conversation was also about how the two countries can "work together to build a strong North American economy."


He said there were discussions about what the countries can do to check China, but did not offer details.


Asked if there was a tangible outcome from these discussions, Champagne said the agreement to just continue talks in a civil way is something of a win.


"I would say we leave Washington better equipped to defend Canadian interests," he said.


Kirsten Hillman, Canada's ambassador to the U.S., said it was valuable to get face time with Greer in particular, a man she described as the president's "main quarterback" for the America First trade policy agenda, including Trump's threatened "reciprocal" tariffs on goods from around the world that are set to take effect on April 2.


The focus of Thursday's talks was getting Greer to understand the possible consequences of those tariffs if they come into force on Canadian goods early next month, Hillman said.


This was not a chance to talk about renegotiating the Canada-U.S.-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA), the trilateral free trade deal between those three countries, something that isn't up for review until 2026, she said.


Some premiers have been angling to have that agreement renegotiated earlier than planned.


Champagne said Canada will continue to take a hard stance on the U.S., though, keeping its retaliatory tariffs in place for as long as necessary.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

No, you tell the unions that additional measures will be taken to protect those jobs, so as to ensure that the continued operation of those breweries is the right move and that Labatt and Molson Coors have no reason to close them.

There are plenty of levers to pull if the thinking is that we're actually all in this together.

Or…. If they’re concerned that opening up the market to more selection is going to significantly reduce sales / jobs, maybe improve your product so it remains competitive?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Brendone

Or…. If they’re concerned that opening up the market to more selection is going to significantly reduce sales / jobs, maybe improve your product so it remains competitive?

I mean, the reason it's the unions for the macro brewers concerned is that the product is a commodity. By design Molson is supposed to taste the same whichever brewery its from. The only reason those breweries exist is protectionist trade laws.

If we use less people and capital to make the same quantity of indifferent quality beer in total as a society we will be better off, because we can consume the beer plus whatever we can produce with the freed up people/capital. For fairness reasons it would be good to support the people displaced using public funds, but that's a policy change that would benefit Canadians.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Looch City

When is a pre-emptive military attack on this #### hole country plausible?

Can we just start blasting? Send in the bears or moose herds?

Yeah, I don’t get it. If any private citizen caused as much financial havoc as is doing, they’d be locked up forever.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, well my apologies for this...this could probably go into the gear grinder thread, but here goes. No matter what happened with the tariffs, we were about to hear "I told you so!" and "I knew it all along!". There is nothing that grinds my gears in my line of work more than this, but it was inevitable. If the tariffs never came to pass, it would be because "we all knew it was a negotiating tactic". And if the tariffs get implemented and we get the economic mess, it would be "well, Trump said he would and you could've prepared!"

Now, neither of those scenarios has actually played out...we both got the tariffs and we didn't (Schrodingers Tariffs!), and yet here we are subjected to "I told you so" anyway. Gimme a break. First of all, no one I saw was calling for 30 day tariff peek-a-boo, and while I read an abnormal amount of these things, if you can show me one person who called that I'll concede that I'm wrong.

But more importantly, you speak of this economic devastation. The TSX is down about 0.77% this year. Obviously, we're 2.5 months in, and that number means nothing, but that's absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. How should we expect our leaders to react in the face of that drawdown?

And yeah, those tariffs were first mentioned during the campaign and then again in late November. Since then, the Canadian economy has not plummeted, unemployment is not skyrocketing, and things are not wildly out of control. We know that the Canadian government has plans to provide enormous relief packages to people if those tariffs are implemented, and they have a plan. But you know...the tariffs haven't actually been in for any length of time. It was two days of tariffs and now we're back in the threat stage. How would you like to see the government take meaningful action against this?

Let's agree to disagree on the level of potential and probable pain of long term 25% +/- tariffs on Canada. I think the situation is beyond concerning long term based upon Canada's competitiveness, lack of business acumen and lack of united political action for a broad based economic strategy.

Some basic aspects that have already discussed by the incoming PM Carney. He politely called things like the consumer carbon tax, capital gains inclusion changes and lack of competitive fire concerning. He will reverse course on those important things.

We talk about interprovincial trade barriers but let's just get on with the basics and quickly. Nevermind the BS, nobody gains. We don't need congratulatory messages and praise because BC can now sell more wine with Alberta. I can't imagine Italian's and Greeks praising their leaders for allowing olive oil and cheese to be sold effectively down the street as some big win.

I would like to see tax changes to make air travel more competitive in Canada. There is no reason why we should have such high level of taxation for basic domestic flights. Many countries around the world use air travel to bolster their travel and tourism sectors meanwhile we charge a fortune for a flight from Calgary to Regina for a basic business meeting.


Competitive fire, productivity, increased consumer protection and a loosing of handcuffs for Canadian business. Canada suffers from the above big time. We have a scenario where our companies lack competitive fire, our workers lack productivity, we do lack a lot of consumer protections from our regulated oligopolies while also hamstringing them with regulations to prevent them from competing internationally.

This is a long winded topic that can be discussed for a long time. We are kinda handcuffed in Canada with the current situation with the politics. No matter who wins in the next election, we need lighting speed on reforms. We can't afford to fight with each other about nonsense like wine, labour mobility, trade certifications within provinces, national regulator for investment industry and more.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

When all this is over we better remember that free trade and specialization actually make us richer (through access to export markets) and give us better and cheaper goods as consumers (imports). There is a danger that this Canadian protectionist sentiment outlives its usefulness.

But for now, both is the correct answer. Tariffs are the government's way to push consumers to participate in avoidance of American goods.

At the same time American producers seeing sales drop on their export side will force them to drop prices on the domestic side to make up for what they are losing.

Which brings price down, no?

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Azure

At the same time American producers seeing sales drop on their export side will force them to drop prices on the domestic side to make up for what they are losing.

Which brings price down, no?

No. They cut production on what has become a domestic monopoly. Then prices go up.

Such a mother ****ing bullheaded Baffoon in charge down there. Seeing how this has played out I will certainly think twice about how I vote in our elections going forward. Also trips to the US are off the table for me as well. Usually one or two weekend ones and one larger one per year.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

At the same time American producers seeing sales drop on their export side will force them to drop prices on the domestic side to make up for what they are losing.



Which brings price down, no?

You don't sell at a loss to make up revenue. You may drop prices somewhat, but will have to trim expenses (jobs) to make the difference. Or you produce less and the layoffs come anyways

[Azure]

Ah yeah, makes sense.

Either way they are going to be forced to look at more domestic options, which even in the long-term if it equals same pricing is going to equal higher long term pricing.

[opendoor]

If you believe what people around Trump have been writing and saying, tariffs (at least the ones on allies) aren't the end game, they're just a means to an end; basically they're a shakedown.

The primary goal is to devalue the US dollar against other currencies, which would theoretically improve the competitiveness of US manufacturers, increase foreign investment in US manufacturing, reduce or eliminate trade deficits, devalue US debt obligations, and allow lower interest rates in the US. At the same time, they would require other countries to commit to financing US debt at low rates by converting US Treasury and cash holdings to long-term low-interest bonds. And to achieve the acquiescence of trading partners in strengthening their own currencies and adjusting their holdings, they use the threat of tariffs and the prospect of reducing security.

The US did a similar thing in the '80s with the Plaza Accord. Unfortunately for them, the world has changed a lot since the 1980s and the chances of them being successful in twisting the arms of the other large economies to take such drastic measures are pretty low. It's more like to simply erode US power and reduce the US dollar's role in the global financial system.