Really? What kind of Press Conference has a race? This just seems to be getting dumber and dumber.
So, since this sparked some confusion...this wasn't a press conference. It was a production for a YouTube channel called "Jubilee". They host a variety of debates and things in a variety of formats. Some of them good, some of them...eh.
This clip was from their "20x vs 1y" debate format. In this particular format, the 1y (Sam, in this case) sits at a table in the middle and puts forth a statement (Something like "I think abortion should be heavily legislated").
The 1y is surrounded, literally, by the 20x who are sitting in chairs in a large circle. Whichever x feels strongly in opposition to y's statement can, at the buzzer, get out of their chair and run to the chair at the table opposite of y. Whichever x out of the runners touches the chair first gets to sit and talk to y.
They are limited by a time limit (each topic gets only 15 minutes) and by a majority of their peers. Each x has a red flag, and if they are getting tired of listening to the current x vs the y, they can raise their flag. When a majority has been reached, the current x is buzzed out and must leave the chair, to give another x a chance.
It's set up for clicks and whatnot, as the format and voting give little time to explore any singular topic in much depth, so you usually just get the surface topical talking points before another x comes in with much the same to y's point. But occasionally, you get clips of some really stupid things said, which is what you saw.
Last edited by WhiteTiger; 03-13-2025 at 08:19 AM.
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Holy crap, maybe it's time to not go to America anymore.
Your situation and that of any other Canadian visiting the US on vacation is going to be vastly different than someone who is there trying to work while on a revoked visa.
These people have shown time and again that rational conversation is impossible. They are not living in anything that resembles reality. They are locked in a social media, algorithm driven bubble. Even if you had a psychology degree with a focus on cult deprogramming I don't know how you expect to get anywhere with these folks. Like other cults we've seen the only thing that will end it is the end of the cult itself.
Seriously, what are you supposed to try and do with someone like this? You think you can "conversation" them into reality? Maybe ignoring them would be better in your view than slandering them, but believing there's a sweet spot to having rational conversations with irrational people is hoping for a miracle.
I think the bigger issue of these debates is how many young conservatives there are.
You can absolutely get through to "these people". The student is not that far off, his wording is just slightly wrong, his basic argument being there are grants and incentives for hiring people of color. They just got stuck on the word tax cut.
If I were Sam, I would have said, "You mean grants and incentives, not cuts"
Here's is the opposite, Ben Shapiro against 25 progressives.
Spoiler!
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Last edited by GirlySports; 03-13-2025 at 08:34 AM.
Your situation and that of any other Canadian visiting the US on vacation is going to be vastly different than someone who is there trying to work while on a revoked visa.
Whatever you want to tell yourself. Here we have a Canadian citizen denied due process and tossed in a prison with no representation and no information. If that's something you want to risk, and hope the US government got your paperwork right when you entered now that registration is required, go ahead. but make no mistake, this is far from the last story like this.
If you don't think ICE makes mistakes that can lead to a normal Canadian tourist ending up in this situation, well, go ahead and pretend these people are perfect.
I think the bigger issue of these debates is how many young conservatives there are.
These debates usually draw bait posters, who in this era, are overwhelming conservative, because the grift there is 100x more profitable than whatever the liberal equivalent grift is. So maybe they are cosplaying being dumb as #### for the rep, who knows? But we have plenty of people who can give lots of real world examples and not social media. It's a cult, and their behavior is textbook cult behavior. It's just astonishing that the largest cult in modern history is spearheaded by a guy who spray paints himself orange and bankrupted a casino. Which reminds me of how badly the good guys need to win this battle, cause I do not want them getting to rewrite history.
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Whatever you want to tell yourself. Here we have a Canadian citizen denied due process and tossed in a prison with no representation and no information. If that's something you want to risk, and hope the US government got your paperwork right when you entered now that registration is required, go ahead. but make no mistake, this is far from the last story like this.
If you don't think ICE makes mistakes that can lead to a normal Canadian tourist ending up in this situation, well, go ahead and pretend these people are perfect.
ICE won't be perfect but again for a regular tourist traveling between Canada and the US I'm certain that everything will be as it was 3 months ago.
But this woman screwed #### up and possibly got some bad advice and is now dealing with the consequences. She had her prior TN visa revoked and will obviously be in the system for future monitoring. She went down to Mexico to try to get into the US on a new TN visa with paperwork that was apparently incomplete. This set off warning flags and got her detained. It's a ####ty situation to be in but play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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ICE won't be perfect but again for a regular tourist traveling between Canada and the US I'm certain that everything will be as it was 3 months ago.
But this woman screwed #### up and possibly got some bad advice and is now dealing with the consequences. She had her prior TN visa revoked and will obviously be in the system for future monitoring. She went down to Mexico to try to get into the US on a new TN visa with paperwork that was apparently incomplete. This set off warning flags and got her detained. It's a ####ty situation to be in but play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Indefinite detention without representation is a pretty big stupid prize to win for getting paperwork wrong. Get real. There are reasonable processes to follow here, and this is not what happened to her. She got caught up in the xenophobic racist new and improved US immigration system that doesn't care for facts or reality. There are zero guarantees foreign nationals will be treated properly, which makes it a risk.
But I'm sure you have a perfect record and never got anything wrong on a form, and if you are white perhaps have less to worry about.
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Your situation and that of any other Canadian visiting the US on vacation is going to be vastly different than someone who is there trying to work while on a revoked visa.
Sooo... I worked in the US on a few TN Visas over the years...
You basically have a job offer (on company letterhead) that says you're working in a field where there local searches have provided no Americans who can fill the position (in my case I was an archaeologist working in digital media on recreations of a museum).
It MUST be on company letterhead with contact info for the company.
You take your letter and application to any border agent and ask them to approve a 6mo-1y TN visa. Yup. You're trying to convince the rental cop at the border you're legit. If they agree, they stamp you, and you're g2g for a year.
If they disagree, you don't get the TN visa. My immigration guy told me that if it ever happened, you should depart, and return the next day to try to get a different agent.
In large border crossings it's usually a rubber stamp. They are used to TN visas, there are hoards of people crossing, and generally they don't GAF.
If you go to a smaller crossing, expect the bored agent to subject you to greater scrutiny. The only time I ever had an issue was with this lady who decided randomly to approve me for 6 months rather than a year. No reason given. So much for my apartment lease! I was sweating that year, but pretty quickly got an H1B, so it didn't matter.
I was in the deep south, but would ALWAYS fly or drive back to Canada for the visa renewal. I would rather be stranded in Ottawa, or Vancouver, or even POS Salmo (f that b) than have anything to do with a trigger happy American border agent working on the line in Mexico.
So, it sounds like it went sideways for a few reasons.
TN visa is for a specific job and specific company. Sounds like she switched companies. As to the job... no shortage of snake oil hippies in CA?
A major component of the application paperwork is the company letter on company letterhead (I actually carried the letterhead with me so I could print as needed if anything happened). She said didn't have that (and was kind of snooty about it).
She tried to cross from Mexico. This shouldn't be a huge deal, but it's the time of Orange Dotard, so that feels like a role of the dice.
The TN Visa is at the discretion of the border agent. You hit the wrong meathead on the wrong day... sounds like she did.
But here's the thing (as was pointed out by the attorney in the video). If you get rejected, you should be able to turn on your heel and just go back to the country you were trying to get in from.
"This is not approved."
"Mkay, byeeee"
That didn't happen here. Maybe she was being rude. Maybe her application looked fraudulent. Maybe the Agent is bigtime MAGA. But it is SUPER weird she wasn't allowed to just go back to Mexico. God only knows how long she's going to be stuck in a cell now.
Scary time for immigrants, and visa workers.
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I, too, worked on a TN Visa for 2 years and had almost the same experiences as Sutter Brother. A colleague who also came from Canada was even rejected by the same border station I was approved on! (He was of indian heritage though, so we both suspected that it came down to racism adjacent.)
This is pretty scary. I was really cautious to never over stay, and did exactly like SB said, drove to the canadian border and reentered to reapply. It was all good then, but can't imagine getting flagged and put into ICE detainment in detroit instead of just turned around...
Sooo... I worked in the US on a few TN Visas over the years...
You basically have a job offer (on company letterhead) that says you're working in a field where there local searches have provided no Americans who can fill the position (in my case I was an archaeologist working in digital media on recreations of a museum).
It MUST be on company letterhead with contact info for the company.
You take your letter and application to any border agent and ask them to approve a 6mo-1y TN visa. Yup. You're trying to convince the rental cop at the border you're legit. If they agree, they stamp you, and you're g2g for a year.
If they disagree, you don't get the TN visa. My immigration guy told me that if it ever happened, you should depart, and return the next day to try to get a different agent.
In large border crossings it's usually a rubber stamp. They are used to TN visas, there are hoards of people crossing, and generally they don't GAF.
If you go to a smaller crossing, expect the bored agent to subject you to greater scrutiny. The only time I ever had an issue was with this lady who decided randomly to approve me for 6 months rather than a year. No reason given. So much for my apartment lease! I was sweating that year, but pretty quickly got an H1B, so it didn't matter.
I was in the deep south, but would ALWAYS fly or drive back to Canada for the visa renewal. I would rather be stranded in Ottawa, or Vancouver, or even POS Salmo (f that b) than have anything to do with a trigger happy American border agent working on the line in Mexico.
So, it sounds like it went sideways for a few reasons.
TN visa is for a specific job and specific company. Sounds like she switched companies. As to the job... no shortage of snake oil hippies in CA?
A major component of the application paperwork is the company letter on company letterhead (I actually carried the letterhead with me so I could print as needed if anything happened). She said didn't have that (and was kind of snooty about it).
She tried to cross from Mexico. This shouldn't be a huge deal, but it's the time of Orange Dotard, so that feels like a role of the dice.
The TN Visa is at the discretion of the border agent. You hit the wrong meathead on the wrong day... sounds like she did.
But here's the thing (as was pointed out by the attorney in the video). If you get rejected, you should be able to turn on your heel and just go back to the country you were trying to get in from.
"This is not approved."
"Mkay, byeeee"
That didn't happen here. Maybe she was being rude. Maybe her application looked fraudulent. Maybe the Agent is bigtime MAGA. But it is SUPER weird she wasn't allowed to just go back to Mexico. God only knows how long she's going to be stuck in a cell now.
Scary time for immigrants, and visa workers.
Are border agents, simple rental cop security guards?
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
I, too, worked on a TN Visa for 2 years and had almost the same experiences as Sutter Brother. A colleague who also came from Canada was even rejected by the same border station I was approved on! (He was of indian heritage though, so we both suspected that it came down to racism adjacent.)
This is pretty scary. I was really cautious to never over stay, and did exactly like SB said, drove to the canadian border and reentered to reapply. It was all good then, but can't imagine getting flagged and put into ICE detainment in detroit instead of just turned around...
Agreed, and matches my memories of that time many years ago as well.
It would be good to know more details about why her original visa was revoked. I'd imagine getting a visa revoked is a lot different than getting one denied.
Did she fly straight from Canada to the Mexico for the specific purpose of entering at the Mexican border? That doesn't seem like a great idea, and would make her look pretty suspicious, especially with a revoked visa on her record. Was she spending some time in the US possibly working without a visa?
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Not really the same but in the late 90s I applied for a student work visa to the US. When I went to the WA border the guy initially dealing with me was a crank. He started making remarks about “foreigners stealing our jobs” and was questioning my intentions. Luckily someone much nicer and higher up the food chain heard the conversation and stepped in and pushed the first guy aside and stamped my papers.
It would be good to know more details about why her original visa was revoked. I'd imagine getting a visa revoked is a lot different than getting one denied.
Did she fly straight from Canada to the Mexico for the specific purpose of entering at the Mexican border? That doesn't seem like a great idea, and would make her look pretty suspicious, especially with a revoked visa on her record. Was she spending some time in the US possibly working without a visa?
I don't really understand how she would even get a TN visa. She is clearly not a professional accountant, engineer, scientist, etc. that this visa was designed for. When I had mine the immigration lawyers had about 5 things drafted and needed my professional designation paperwork.
Looking at her linkedin (no degrees) and based on the article she would not qualify which that, on top of the hemp ingredients in the business she was consulting for would be huge red flags. A self employed person cannot get a TN visa and you need your organization to sponsor you. Hence the letterhead etc.
Reading the article it sounds like she was self employed and working with another freelancer. Hence no company letterhead and likely no corporate sponsor.
Now, should she have been detained for a long period of time? Hell no. This is a clear overreaction from ICE. But I think its fearmongering to suggest this case is a reason for the general public traveling to the states to be worried.
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