Solar power systems for the home

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Net metering is where the utility credits me full retail rate for every kWh I export.

In BC, where we pay a flat rate inclusive of T&D costs, BC Hydro is not only paying retail rate for really cheap electricity, they're also receiving almost no money from me for T&D costs. That isn't sustainable at higher penetration

My entire monthly charges are the $6 a month which is for the daily rate which is just meant for administration. Therefore, BC Hydro is not just paying high prices for my cheap electricity as we're on the Western Interconnection (mid day wholesale is cheap), I pay nothing for the grid infrastructure I use 10-12 hours a day.

This thread is funny because your example is exactly what DoubleK is concerned about when he calls net metering 'selfish'.

But based on the info rasta provided (and I appreciate his very knowledgeable takes!) we pay distribution on everything we take from the grid in Alberta and the net part only accounts for usage. So the 'selfish' aspect of net metering doesn't apply here - but does apparently in BC.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Torture

This thread is funny because your example is exactly what DoubleK is concerned about when he calls net metering 'selfish'.

But based on the info rasta provided (and I appreciate his very knowledgeable takes!) we pay distribution on everything we take from the grid in Alberta and the net part only accounts for usage. So the 'selfish' aspect of net metering doesn't apply here - but does apparently in BC.

Avoiding paying your fair share of services used is selfish by definition, which is precisely why people who were on those schemes initially fought so hard to prevent change.

Comparing BCH to any other jurisdiction is just plain silly. The Basic Charge in BC doesn't cover the costs of delivering electricity to customers. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Further, unless BC has changed the self-generation rate, it only applies to energy charges. A self-generator is still obligated to pay the Basic Charge which is what I have been advocating for.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Avoiding paying your fair share of services used is selfish by definition, which is precisely why people who were on those schemes initially fought so hard to prevent change.



Comparing BCH to any other jurisdiction is just plain silly. The Basic Charge in BC doesn't cover the costs of delivering electricity to customers. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Further, unless BC has changed the self-generation rate, it only applies to energy charges. A self-generator is still obligated to pay the Basic Charge which is what I have been advocating for.

For what it's worth I'm trying to show I agree with you here that ultimately, net metering in most jurisdictions as in BC is not sustainable. I wasn't trying to compare anything, just trying to show (poorly apparently) that "net metering" in some jurisdictions like mine are even worse for utilities and will need to be changed once uptake gets high enough

[DoubleK]

The BC reality is very interesting because there is a mix of crown utilities/agencies, independent power producers and investor owned utilities (e.g Fortis BC). It would be interesting to see if/how Fortis covers the shortfall between the revenue from the basic charge and what their costs are to operate and maintain their network.

The other thing that occurred to me is how big and diverse BC is and all customers are paying the same Basic Charge (I did see that there were some regional rates, but nothing like I would expect). That likely means that some customers are paying more than they would/should and some are paying less. Contrast this to Alberta where customers in different service territories pay different distribution charges depending on who owns their wires.

Powerex makes a crap ton of money and I would expect that to be going towards keeping the power prices down for the people of BC.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The BC reality is very interesting because there is a mix of crown utilities/agencies, independent power producers and investor owned utilities (e.g Fortis BC). It would be interesting to see if/how Fortis covers the shortfall between the revenue from the basic charge and what their costs are to operate and maintain their network.

The other thing that occurred to me is how big and diverse BC is and all customers are paying the same Basic Charge (I did see that there were some regional rates, but nothing like I would expect). That likely means that some customers are paying more than they would/should and some are paying less. Contrast this to Alberta where customers in different service territories pay different distribution charges depending on who owns their wires.

Powerex makes a crap ton of money and I would expect that to be going towards keeping the power prices down for the people of BC.

That, and electricity prices are very political here as people equate Crown Corp with government ministry and any increases are seen as government overcharge. With the recent call for power, obviously prices will need to increase.

In order to keep costs down, the government essentially floats losses so that rates stay stable and people don't get upset. And yes, Powerex really helps too:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...he%20transfers.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That, and electricity prices are very political here as people equate Crown Corp with government ministry and any increases are seen as government overcharge. With the recent call for power, obviously prices will need to increase.

In order to keep costs down, the government essentially floats losses so that rates stay stable and people don't get upset. And yes, Powerex really helps too:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...he%20transfers.

The new mandate letters should be out soon. Will have to look at them to see what's what.

[#-3]

Getting new shingles because of the hail storm.

So I think I'm going to take the plunge into solar, and I'm finding the greener homes loan process frustrating.

The government is trying to make adoption of this type of technology easier and cheaper, but they make you pay a private company $700 for an energy assessment to access the program. Still a great deal to pay $700 down to access a 10 year interest free loan, but has there every been anything as government as making me take a day off work to pay a guy $700 to walk around my house and write recommendations so that I can buy something I already know I want, and the lender already knows qualifies for it's program.

I welcome someone letting me know there is a very good reason for it, but face value it just seems like bureaucratic nonsense to limit the accessibility of the program, because they want this program to exist for political reasons, but not too much of this program for budgetary reasons.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by #-3

Getting new shingles because of the hail storm.

So I think I'm going to take the plunge into solar, and I'm finding the greener homes loan process frustrating.

The government is trying to make adoption of this type of technology easier and cheaper, but they make you pay a private company $700 for an energy assessment to access the program. Still a great deal to pay $700 down to access a 10 year interest free loan, but has there every been anything as government as making me take a day off work to pay a guy $700 to walk around my house and write recommendations so that I can buy something I already know I want, and the lender already knows qualifies for it's program.

I welcome someone letting me know there is a very good reason for it, but face value it just seems like bureaucratic nonsense to limit the accessibility of the program, because they want this program to exist for political reasons, but not too much of this program for budgetary reasons.

I agree with the sentiment, but the energy audit actually led to me finding some massive air leaks in my house that I took care of while I was at it. My blower door test improved by something like 30% when they came back. I guess people like me are the target that drag the rest of you into an inspection that is needless on many homes.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by #-3

Getting new shingles because of the hail storm.

So I think I'm going to take the plunge into solar, and I'm finding the greener homes loan process frustrating.

The government is trying to make adoption of this type of technology easier and cheaper, but they make you pay a private company $700 for an energy assessment to access the program. Still a great deal to pay $700 down to access a 10 year interest free loan, but has there every been anything as government as making me take a day off work to pay a guy $700 to walk around my house and write recommendations so that I can buy something I already know I want, and the lender already knows qualifies for it's program.

I welcome someone letting me know there is a very good reason for it, but face value it just seems like bureaucratic nonsense to limit the accessibility of the program, because they want this program to exist for political reasons, but not too much of this program for budgetary reasons.

This is one of the reasons the company I work for pays for the energy assessments for our customers, along with using the 15% loan advance as the deposit. It's possible to make sure there's no up front cash payment for a client to move forward with Solar as long as you structure payment terms alongside the loan program policies, and having incentives like the Energy Assessments being covered. I think most of the more established Solar companies do the same. Word of advice to anybody looking at Solar, don't get any assessments before you've gathered quotes as at least in our case that cost would be covered by us, but if you've already started the assessments on you're own your costs are definitely going to be higher.

But you're right, if Solar is the only thing you're looking at doing, it's frustrating to have to complete an energy assessment. The energy advisor simply has a checkbox that says does the home have Solar, and if it doesn't, its going to be listed as a qualified retrofit on the Energuide Report for Greener Homes Loan eligibility.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by #-3

Getting new shingles because of the hail storm.

So I think I'm going to take the plunge into solar, and I'm finding the greener homes loan process frustrating.

The government is trying to make adoption of this type of technology easier and cheaper, but they make you pay a private company $700 for an energy assessment to access the program. Still a great deal to pay $700 down to access a 10 year interest free loan, but has there every been anything as government as making me take a day off work to pay a guy $700 to walk around my house and write recommendations so that I can buy something I already know I want, and the lender already knows qualifies for it's program.

I welcome someone letting me know there is a very good reason for it, but face value it just seems like bureaucratic nonsense to limit the accessibility of the program, because they want this program to exist for political reasons, but not too much of this program for budgetary reasons.

At the end of the day these programs are intended to be job creation. If they simply provided the grants without needing to pay someone to walk through your house, there wouldn't be much of a positive economic impact.

A buddy was just telling me about this last night and they're going to skip the assessment. They have a very small home with a small installation planned. The $800 fee was going to account for more than 10% of the project cost so he didn't feel it was worth it.

[the-rasta-masta]

In the Fall Economic Statement that was released mid December right before the Holiday break, it was noted that an additional $600 million has been injected into the Greener Home Loan Program.

I've mentioned on here previously that we were expecting the loan program to run out of funds in approximately 6 months, however this should give it a few more years of runway!

[calgarygeologist]

It might be a bit early but I submitted my request to switch over to the high price electricity rate. This past week I've been producing 26kwh per day and forecast looks stable for the next little while. Based on my stats, last year I was an exporter starting in mid March.

It also looks like I might have made it through the entire winter without paying for power. My last bill was up to Jan 20 and I had $255 in credit left. Feb was cold though and I did have my garage heater on a lot which is electric so I should be around $250 or $300 for the next bill.

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by #-3

Getting new shingles because of the hail storm.

So I think I'm going to take the plunge into solar, and I'm finding the greener homes loan process frustrating.

The government is trying to make adoption of this type of technology easier and cheaper, but they make you pay a private company $700 for an energy assessment to access the program. Still a great deal to pay $700 down to access a 10 year interest free loan, but has there every been anything as government as making me take a day off work to pay a guy $700 to walk around my house and write recommendations so that I can buy something I already know I want, and the lender already knows qualifies for it's program.

I welcome someone letting me know there is a very good reason for it, but face value it just seems like bureaucratic nonsense to limit the accessibility of the program, because they want this program to exist for political reasons, but not too much of this program for budgetary reasons.

It's really stupid for solar installations especially, but in general for the program it's because of previous programs where grants were abused or utilized poorly.

Kind of one of those "good ideas, poorly executed" type of things. Paying for a follow-up blower door test after getting solar panels put on my roof, really inefficient use of capital. Lol.

[photon]

Been kind of neat to see the system produce a little bit more each day as the days get a little bit longer. Don't really know much about it since my system got turned on so late last year so not sure when to switch over yet, producing about 17kWh a day now.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

In the Fall Economic Statement that was released mid December right before the Holiday break, it was noted that an additional $600 million has been injected into the Greener Home Loan Program.

I've mentioned on here previously that we were expecting the loan program to run out of funds in approximately 6 months, however this should give it a few more years of runway!

I met with a company yesterday and he was telling me that he expects the prices of Solar Panels will go up on Tuesday with the tarrifs coming in and that the 10 year interest free loan program was likely getting cancelled soon.

Any thoughts on whether this is true, or is in a tactic to put pressure on me to make a quick decision?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I met with a company yesterday and he was telling me that he expects the prices of Solar Panels will go up on Tuesday with the tarrifs coming in and that the 10 year interest free loan program was likely getting cancelled soon.

Any thoughts on whether this is true, or is in a tactic to put pressure on me to make a quick decision?

Aren't most solar panels manufactured in China? Who knows what happens with tarrifs and I'm sure it'll have an impact on prices down the line but feels like a pressure tactic to me.

[Boblobla]

Any recommendations for installers who work in the deep south of the city?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

Any recommendations for installers who work in the deep south of the city?

I assume they work in the deep south - I was very happy with Solar YYC and got quotes from all the majors before signing on with them.
I believe rasta-masta works for them.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Torture

Aren't most solar panels manufactured in China? Who knows what happens with tarrifs and I'm sure it'll have an impact on prices down the line but feels like a pressure tactic to me.

I don't know about the panels themselves, but I do know China is the largest supplier of polysilicon wafers which is what you need to put in the panels.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

I met with a company yesterday and he was telling me that he expects the prices of Solar Panels will go up on Tuesday with the tarrifs coming in and that the 10 year interest free loan program was likely getting cancelled soon.

Any thoughts on whether this is true, or is in a tactic to put pressure on me to make a quick decision?

That seems like a pressure sales tactic not rooted in reality.

There is some truth to the loan piece. We are expecting about a 6 month or so runway on it but that's not based on anything released by the government, moreso our evaluation on average loan amount and uptake numbers. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, the government did announce a $600 million infusion into the loan program back in December, but it did come out afterwards that this has yet to be funded and needs to go through a vote here and so I'm not holding my breath on it at this point. If it did get approved it should extend the program out into 2026.

When the grant ran out of funding last February the government announced that it was running out of funds on November 10th, 2023, and the program closed on Feb 19th, 2024. I'd assume they'd give another heads up if that were the case with the loan.

In regards to the tariffs, we had a meeting this morning where it was confirmed that the only piece of our projects that is affected is the electrical panels and parts that we order from GE (which are only required in a small number of projects). We're looking for an alternative but we also have stock to last us a full year so pricing won't be affected for some time. Most Tier 1 solar equipment is produced in China so tariffs shouldn't have an effect on most companies.

Also if you met with a door knocking company, avoid avoid avoid.