12-13 They traded iginla, bouwmester and tanguey. Kipper retired.
Cammelleri and Stepniak went next year.
4 of your top 6 forwards, your starting goalie and 1 top 4d.
They had 4 first in the following 2 years.
It's not the exact same, but there's similarities.
Treliving was hired April of 2014. The team exceed expectations and beat a weak Vancouver team (compared to other playoff teams atm), and they began to have the mentality of let's make it to playoffs and see what happens. Treliving went an spent 1st and 2nds on Hamilton, and did the very same thing with Hamonic a few years later. The issue with Hamonic was he was already trending downwards at the time. Then he signed older UFAs, and spent picks trying to find a goalie, or would waste picks adding depth guys at the deadline that did nothing to move to the needle.
Conroy hasn't blown a bunch of picks, he's been restocking the cupboards. He's traded the UFA's hes had to, and picked up pieces that could help long term in the process. He's also done a great job at bringing in the guys from the AHL like he said he would. Where as Treliving was all about needing truculence and size for the 4th line.
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12-13 They traded iginla, bouwmester and tanguey. Kipper retired.
Cammelleri and Stepniak went next year.
4 of your top 6 forwards, your starting goalie and 1 top 4d.
They had 4 first in the following 2 years.
It's not the exact same, but there's similarities.
I thought we were talking about Tre? Feaster traded Iggy, Jaybo, and Tanguay
Flames got younger with the Frost/Farabee trade...what else has conroy done that wasn't future focused?
Can you find the post I said the season is a waste ?
They should absolutely not be moving draft picks for more middle 6 players. If you can find me an elite top line player available that can be had for a draft pick let me know.
I’ve literally said they have overachieved and it’s by outworking their opponent and on the back of Wolf. That doesn’t mean you start abandoning the build and move picks for junk like a Cozens or dip into free agency for a Rantanen. Those are the hypotheticals being discussed.
The team lacks the elite talent to take the next step. They don’t have a #1C and unless a Eichel suddenly happens the draft is the most likely way to grab one.
Prior to the season I’ve been saying Wolf is going to be a star. So what he’s doing now isn’t a surprise but this quickly it is.
Yes I did say that it might be an upper management and ownership issue the second they smell a playoff spot they can’t stomach seeing through a proper rebuild.
But you do you man make stuff up to hunt for likes from Burning Beard and Dino.
Monahammer said the season was a waste and you were just grouped in with him because your guys posts have been similar tone the past week or so (and both at a very high frequency)
Both of you are getting frustrated about hypothetical situations that haven't happened yet, especially around the narrative of abandoning the retool already to try to squeak in as an 8 seed or moving 1st round picks for non-impactful players.
And both seem to be continuing the narrative that somehow Conroy should have done more to ensure a top 5 pick when 95% of people thought they would be drafting in that 5-10 range (lots of people did rightfully predict it would be hard to out suck Chicago, San Jose, etc) and the roster looked pretty flawed in the offseason.
In the end I do get the frustration too, the team needs elite talent and the best way of doing that is early in the draft (although I don't get why people would be against giving up nothing but $$ to sign Rantanen as a UFA in that scenario, since he is an elite talent). But in the end you can't fight the natural momentum and constantly lamenting that they aren't picking top 5 this year doesn't really change anything.
I've mentioned it before but I'm a firm believer that you need to lean into the bad seasons, even if they are unexpected (like Nashville this year) and you can't intentionally sabotage a good season even if it's not what was expected. (Like the Flames this year or in 14-15)
As long as you don't overreact one way or another to those things and stick to the plan it's mostly fine.
Like Nashville for example would be foolish to panic - lots went wrong this year. From Saros having a down season, to Stamkos and Marchessault taking time to adjust, to many other things. But Trotz overreacting to that would be a mistake. Take your top 5 pick, keep your 3 1st rounders this year, and just continue to build.
And it's the same thing for the Flames. Fortunately they have no major UFAs this year that would give them a tough decision on if they should move them, or hang on to try to make the playoffs. They have the benefit of time, they can play out this season, they can continue to look for trades that benefit the team long term which has always been the plan, and they can also reassess pieces like Andersson, Kadri, Coleman, etc in the offseason.
As long as they don't overreact and try to change the plan to trade for low upside veterans (and it doesn't seem like they are) then it's not a big deal. You just continue to build an add pieces (draft, trade, or free agency) to try to build the best possible team long term with the assets at your disposal.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 02-26-2025 at 11:37 PM.
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both of you are getting frustrated about hypothetical situations that haven't happened yet, especially around the narrative of abandoning the retool already to try to squeak in as an 8 seed or moving 1st round picks for non-impactful players.
Some Gio(and Noodles) content, don't know if it deserves its own thread.
He hasn't officially retired yet, but I guess him joining TSN for TradeCentre coverage means he's done. I always thought Gio's personality is a bit too vanilla for TV, but I'm sure he can make a career of it.
PS: Gio's agent is still a joke for taking shots at Conroy for not signing him in the offseason, and not giving Mangiapane PP time.
Marner is an unreal player, and I think he gets a lot of undeserved criticism because of how bad Matthew's always is as well in the playoffs. Him and Rantanen are great adds for a contender, not sure it really fits with our timeline.
It is interesting that Dave mentioned it on X though. He has gotten a lot right in the past, if I remember correctly?
I understand the concern with signing Rantanen this offseason. The flames have a long history of spending big in free agency and regretting the signing in the seasons that follow. We often like to say it’s a good sign because it means players want to sign here but, quite often, it’s just that the GM is willing to overpay. Neal, Brouwer, Coleman, Markstrom, Kadri…the flames always had to offer that much more money and extra years to get it done. More than others were willing to pay in most cases. It’s the nature of free agency. Not saying all of those players were bad signings. Just that I think Rantanen would take a large number and max term to get him here. I think Calgary would have to make him the highest paid player in the league to get it done.
And it’s not that crazy to think he could turn out like Huberdeau. People can say Rantanen is elite - he absolutely has been. But so was Huberdeau. Huberdeau was easily one of the top 5 wingers in the league for years before coming here. Rantanen has been as well. His struggles in Carolina so far are a very small sample size but, if it continues, I would worry about signing him to the kind of deal it would likely take.
People will likely attribute his struggles to the shock of being traded, new team, new system, etc… but what makes a truly elite player? I think it’s someone that can play in any system and still be a dominant player in the league.
I’m sure I’ll be excited if Rantanen does sign with Calgary but, right now, my preference would be to keep building from within (draft and develop) rather than through big free agent signings of vets.
I understand the concern with signing Rantanen this offseason. The flames have a long history of spending big in free agency and regretting the signing in the seasons that follow. We often like to say it’s a good sign because it means players want to sign here but, quite often, it’s just that the GM is willing to overpay. Neal, Brouwer, Coleman, Markstrom, Kadri…the flames always had to offer that much more money and extra years to get it done. More than others were willing to pay in most cases. It’s the nature of free agency. Not saying all of those players were bad signings. Just that I think Rantanen would take a large number and max term to get him here. I think Calgary would have to make him the highest paid player in the league to get it done.
And it’s not that crazy to think he could turn out like Huberdeau. People can say Rantanen is elite - he absolutely has been. But so was Huberdeau. Huberdeau was easily one of the top 5 wingers in the league for years before coming here. Rantanen has been as well. His struggles in Carolina so far are a very small sample size but, if it continues, I would worry about signing him to the kind of deal it would likely take.
People will likely attribute his struggles to the shock of being traded, new team, new system, etc… but what makes a truly elite player? I think it’s someone that can play in any system and still be a dominant player in the league.
I’m sure I’ll be excited if Rantanen does sign with Calgary but, right now, my preference would be to keep building from within (draft and develop) rather than through big free agent signings of vets.
I think that the story of Rantanen "struggling" in Carolina is only a story because of how big of a superstar he is. Rantanen is still producing offense for the Canes, it just isn't going in.
In 55 mins 5 on 5 Blake - Aho - Rantanen has an xG% of 71.7%, with 3.8xGF, and 1.5xGA. Moreover, Rantanen had only 1 game(against WPG) where he had an xG% under 50%. I absolutely think he's elite, and that's a hill I will die on. I watched him enough to know he's not just the product of Mackinnon and Makar, but a great player.
Would he be able to carry the Flames to a cup? probably not. In fact, I think it could be similar to Gaudreau signing with CBJs. That said, with the rising salary-cap I prefer the Flames going after and overpaying the likes of Rantanen and Marner, than going after the Neals, Brouwers, Froliks, Manthas, Colemans, and Kadris of free agency.
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And I think a lot of advanced stats this season (unless they've changed in the last but) have MacKinnon and Makar relying on each other a whole lot, and struggling (relatively) away from each other.
I don't see Carolina trading him because his points aren't there. If it's because they don't want to risk losing him for nothing, that's something else, but who is going to pay full value then, if he is turning down a huge offer from Carolina?
Question for those in the know. Is Honzek untradeable and a must as part of the future of the team? Or is he potentially available? I'm not sure what they can give up aside from him, Kadri, or Andersson.
He’s definitely not in the untouchable group.
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Myself i wouldnt have Parehk, mews, honzek, gridin, battaglia, or I Dar Suniev! As trade bait unless a number one center is coming back. Basha , stromgren, or most others i feel is trading from strength.
12-13 They traded iginla, bouwmester and tanguey. Kipper retired.
Cammelleri and Stepniak went next year.
4 of your top 6 forwards, your starting goalie and 1 top 4d.
They had 4 first in the following 2 years.
It's not the exact same, but there's similarities.
I legit can't believe that was 13 years ago, wow.....but my knees tell me it has, in fact, been that long.
__________________ This Signature line was dated so I changed it.
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Myself i wouldnt have Parehk, mews, honzek, gridin, battaglia, or I Dar Suniev! As trade bait unless a number one center is coming back. Basha , stromgren, or most others i feel is trading from strength.
Not that's been shared with me at least.
I know that Parekh, Wolf, Coronato, Zary and both Farabee and Frost are as close to untradeable as possible at this point so close to 100%. May want to add Bahl to that list as well, he's pretty locked in with Calgary at this point.
For the right price, outside of those guys I'm sure anyone could be moved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
Any chance a trade yesterday was scuttled due to his injury and potential inclusion?
I don't believe so, but I have no new information on this yet today.
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Monahammer said the season was a waste and you were just grouped in with him because your guys posts have been similar tone the past week or so (and both at a very high frequency)
Both of you are getting frustrated about hypothetical situations that haven't happened yet, especially around the narrative of abandoning the retool already to try to squeak in as an 8 seed or moving 1st round picks for non-impactful players.
And both seem to be continuing the narrative that somehow Conroy should have done more to ensure a top 5 pick when 95% of people thought they would be drafting in that 5-10 range (lots of people did rightfully predict it would be hard to out suck Chicago, San Jose, etc) and the roster looked pretty flawed in the offseason.
In the end I do get the frustration too, the team needs elite talent and the best way of doing that is early in the draft (although I don't get why people would be against giving up nothing but $$ to sign Rantanen as a UFA in that scenario, since he is an elite talent). But in the end you can't fight the natural momentum and constantly lamenting that they aren't picking top 5 this year doesn't really change anything.
I've mentioned it before but I'm a firm believer that you need to lean into the bad seasons, even if they are unexpected (like Nashville this year) and you can't intentionally sabotage a good season even if it's not what was expected. (Like the Flames this year or in 14-15)
As long as you don't overreact one way or another to those things and stick to the plan it's mostly fine.
Like Nashville for example would be foolish to panic - lots went wrong this year. From Saros having a down season, to Stamkos and Marchessault taking time to adjust, to many other things. But Trotz overreacting to that would be a mistake. Take your top 5 pick, keep your 3 1st rounders this year, and just continue to build.
And it's the same thing for the Flames. Fortunately they have no major UFAs this year that would give them a tough decision on if they should move them, or hang on to try to make the playoffs. They have the benefit of time, they can play out this season, they can continue to look for trades that benefit the team long term which has always been the plan, and they can also reassess pieces like Andersson, Kadri, Coleman, etc in the offseason.
As long as they don't overreact and try to change the plan to trade for low upside veterans (and it doesn't seem like they are) then it's not a big deal. You just continue to build an add pieces (draft, trade, or free agency) to try to build the best possible team long term with the assets at your disposal.
But this right here, bolded, is the point of contention. This is not a "good" season. We are an absolute tire fire 98% of the time. We're propped up by excellent goaltending. The "good" parts of the season are a mirage, and that's why it's so frustrating, exactly.
The nashville example is pretty much exactly what i fear they're doing. If they go hard after Rantanen this summer the parallel is obvious.
I maintain that this will be a wasted season and will set the team back in a rebuild. Depending on the off season too, it may actually push the future build of the team into disarray as the current crop of performers may get tired with the continued delay to competitiveness on the other end.
And for the record, being lumped with Paulie hurt most. My post count absolutely pales in comparison to his, and I also want it noted that I was the first person on the board to identify paulie as a miscreant, the day after he created this most recent account.
Nick Kypreos reported that the Kings might be open to the idea of trading Quinton Byfield.
"Staying in the West, I hear the Kings are desperate to shake things up to give themselves the best shot of getting out of the first round of the playoffs and not suffer another defeat against Edmonton. Quinton Byfield isn’t a name we’ve heard come up in trade rumours until this week, but suddenly he could be in play. Perhaps he is the player Los Angeles can move to change their look for an opening playoff round”
Saw this in flamesnation. If Byfield is available, I hope the flames make a big push.
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