Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I didn't know the political divide existed in Alberta only. Is it only acceptable look at Alberta for any and all data points related to science?

Not going to be boxed into your goal-post moving attempted gotchas. If you want to refute the scientific data I've provided, go ahead and do so.

Sorry that your highly generalized timeline and poor recall of events doesn’t align with reality.

Wasn’t aware that simple questions with simple answers were crossing a line for you.

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I think we should listen to medical experts on medical research and health affects. They are not, however, the experts on the educational effects of prolonged lockdowns, or other downstream effects.

As society, we need to listen to experts in their respective fields, and make educated decisions about the benefits and costs of policies. That was not done in this case because of the politicization of the issue from both sides. And damage was done to society because of both sides.

Except you don’t, because you’re taking one scientific finding (the vaccines are safe and effective) and using it, in combination with your own poor understanding of the timeline of events, as an attempt to trump other findings and advice from experts related to things like lockdowns, virus spread, herd immunity, etc.

School boards and teachers were also in favour of lockdowns. Should we listen to them, or… ?

You don’t need to answer, because it’s clear you just want to re-litigate COVID based on a simplistic view relying solely on the benefits of hindsight and poor recall, and that seems like it’ll get us just about nowhere.

[Fuzz]

Remember when schools had to cancel classes because there were no healthy teachers to teach them, because lock downs had ended too early? Ya, I'm sure that had no effect on education outcomes either, or because a third of the class was stuck at home..sick, because community spread got so high.

This is why reasonable discussions weren't happening then, and I guess still aren't, and it's not because the left ignored science. They looked at the balance and tried to make decisions on a society level, not one factor. Your point continues to be invalid.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sorry that your highly generalized timeline and poor recall of events doesn’t align with reality.

Wasn’t aware that simple questions with simple answers were crossing a line for you.



Except you don’t, because you’re taking one scientific finding (the vaccines are safe and effective) and using it, in combination with your own poor understanding of the timeline of events, as an attempt to trump other findings and advice from experts related to things like lockdowns, virus spread, herd immunity, etc.

School boards and teachers were also in favour of lockdowns. Should we listen to them, or… ?

You don’t need to answer, because it’s clear you just want to re-litigate COVID based on a simplistic view relying solely on the benefits of hindsight and poor recall, and that seems like it’ll get us just about nowhere.

I'll ask one more time because it seems you've gone into your turtle state where you can't back up what you're saying, so you just throw out the insults hoping that it'll go away. Again, if you want to show anything that, you know, actually supports your position with data, please do so.

Because: once again, blue states had worse educational effects from prolonged lockdowns. Not sure why timeline matters to that.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

I'll ask one more time because it seems you've gone into your turtle state where you can't back up what you're saying, so you just throw out the insults hoping that it'll go away. Again, if you want to show anything that, you know, actually supports your position with data, please do so.

Because: once again, blue states had worse educational effects from prolonged lockdowns. Not sure why timeline matters to that.

And red states had more deaths.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Mark Carney is getting tangled in a web of unclear messaging, lies, as he tries to get support from potential voters across the country.


https://nationalpost.com/news/carney...dled-messaging

I don’t think Carney has an effective plan figured out yet. Just saying whatever needs to be said to try and get support. But you gotta pick a side a some point and that side might alienate some of his potential supporters.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ped

Sure, but iirc, while there was data showing kids didn't get COVID as much, or as badly, one of the concerns that they were carriers; they would go into school with dozens of kids in their class, take it home, and spread it amongst those that were vulnerable.

The data showed that wasn’t the case with early strains. Again, this was known from studies of the first wave. In parts of the world where schools stayed open, they were not significant nodes of transmission. But once any hesitancy towards restrictions was coded as far-right troglodyte talk, a lot of people simply ignored unwelcome data.

Anti-vaxx protestors are mostly idiots. But we need to stop pretending the pandemic was only politicized by one side. Mandating vaccination for all federally employed workers was a political flex, rather than an absolutely necessary public health measure. Marginal reductions in transmission rates for a few months was not worth the long-term blowback in political radicalization and damage to trust in public institutions.

As for the impact of school closures and remote learning, they’re thoroughly documented by studies around the globe. It takes next-level cherry-picking to pretend they were anything but a disaster for learning and other child welfare outcomes. Which is why we won’t see any wide-scale school closures attempted again unless we’re in a total societal breakdown level disaster.

[Ben_in_Canada]

Worth mentioning again, the Canadian Future Party will be an option going forward for those that are politically lost or feel abandoned.
https://thecanadianfutureparty.ca/

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And red states had more deaths.

Even from the graph that you posted, you can see that the red states always had more deaths. The red states are also poorer, with a lower standard of living.

Either way... covid.... American responses years ago.... anything going on in Canada? All good?

[TherapyforGlencross]

wouldn’t really call those “lies”. Isn’t it known that Carney’s french skills are poor?

[FacePaint]

Unfair to frame school closure as "left" as well. I believe the NDP were advocating to keep schools open by making smaller classes using existing space in universities and colleges for smaller cohorts and insisting on improved ventilation as well as masking.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

wouldn’t really call those “lies”. Isn’t it known that Carney’s french skills are poor?

You would think he would be smart enough not to answer a question in a different language that he wasn’t sure about.

But really that just a cop out anyways.

Even his campaign managers are saying he should have answered better (paraphrasing). So not sure how you bring in his French skills as a defence to this.

Poor French is probably worse for him than lying, when it comes to votes.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Even from the graph that you posted, you can see that the red states always had more deaths. The red states are also poorer, with a lower standard of living.

Either way... covid.... American responses years ago.... anything going on in Canada? All good?

What’s more relevant to Canadian politics than American red state/blue state COVID responses where bringing up anything to do with Canada is moving the goal posts?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

wouldn’t really call those “lies”. Isn’t it known that Carney’s french skills are poor?

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

You would think he would be smart enough not to answer a question in a different language that he wasn’t sure about.

But really that just a cop out anyways.

Even his campaign managers are saying he should have answered better (paraphrasing). So not sure how you bring in his French skills as a defence to this.

Poor French is probably worse for him than lying, when it comes to votes.

Speaking of French, I saw some interesting discussion about two weeks ago when the Liberal party announced the debate schedule. They are doing back to back days of debate with the French language one on Monday and the English one on Tuesday. There is some speculation it was set up this way so that if Carney does fumble his French in the debate it can quickly be buried by the debate the following night and hopefully the media won't be able to seize on a bad Monday performance for too long.

[Monahammer]

Has anyone heard Pollievre speaking french? Carney probably needs only a few weeks worth of lessons to surpass him. This seems like an asinine point of contention between these two candidates.

[Monahammer]

The guy can't even roll the R's in his own ducking name.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Has anyone heard Pollievre speaking french? Carney probably needs only a few weeks worth of lessons to surpass him. This seems like an asinine point of contention between these two candidates.

Welcome to the “Blue no matter who” playbook 2025.

Can’t attack policy? No problem. “Look at his shoes! Listen to him speak French! (after someone explains it to us because we don’t know French)”

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Nobody knew that keeping kids out of school was going to affect their education?

No one knew how much they would be affected, no, because we hadn't been in a situation like this before. And medical needs trumped everything else, yes.

[Torture]

Odd how it seems to primarily be right leaning English speaking commentators that have a problem with Carney's French while Chantal Hebert says that it's fine if a bit rusty and that Quebecers are defending it.
I'm not qualified to judge his French language skills but he seems to be polling fine in Quebec.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Torture

Odd how it seems to primarily be right leaning English speaking commentators that have a problem with Carney's French while Chantal Hebert says that it's fine if a bit rusty and that Quebecers are defending it.
I'm not qualified to judge his French language skills but he seems to be polling fine in Quebec.

I don’t know if Glencross is right or left leaning. It doesn’t matter.

Point is, poor French was used as an excuse for lying, or telling two different stories.

I don’t think it’s a good excuse. But that’s just me.

[PepsiFree]

Do Conservative supporters not think for themselves anymore? I understand just parroting whatever PP tells them to think is easy, but it’s a pretty big reach to take a case of unclear language and call it lying.