Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Here's a list of PP's achievements over his 25 years in parliament....
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Well there has to be at least one right?

Hey, he did push some sort of vote-limiting law through didn’t he?

[puffnstuff]

Because that would cause those churchgoers to examine their own flaws and foibles?
Cant have that.
But being woke and dei have been hammered home as evil to them.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Liberal leader candidates fundraising interim returns as of Feb 5


Carney: $1.913M from 11,260 donors
Gould: $236k from 1,375 donors
Freeland: $227 from 332 donors
Baylis: $227k from 188 donors
Dhalla: $145k from 107 donors

Shocked Freeland is so low. I thought she well liked in the party

[Manhattanboy]

I might actually be ok with Carney if I knew Butts and Telford and the rest of Trudeau’s insiders (ie the actual decision makers in the PMO) were not going to be part of his inner circle.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Anyone using the word woke seriously is not a serious person.

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

4. Defunding the police

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of speech

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

8. Etc.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important talent

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

4. Defunding the police

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

8. Etc.

Do you have specific examples of these 7 things being implemented in a manner you disagree with and have you applied the same rigor and scrutiny in evaluating this list to based on this list the “woke” right.

Like 2, 3, 6 and 7 are essentially the conservative playbook right now.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

4. Defunding the police

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

8. Etc.

Excellent job proving his point.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

Well, if we're going to get into it.....you must be outranged about a woman's right to choose being eroded in the US.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

.

Let's legalize all drugs.


my body I get to choose what I put in it

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I might actually be ok with Carney if I knew Butts and Telford and the rest of Trudeau’s insiders (ie the actual decision makers in the PMO) were not going to be part of his inner circle.

Something tells me Carney is a bit smarter than Trudeau.

[puffnstuff]

I too miss the days gone by.
When the coloreds had their own water fountains.
When those uppity women couldnt have bank accounts and didnt work outside the home.
When the confederate flag proudly flew.
Etc.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

4. Defunding the police

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

8. Etc.

I feel compelled to quickly respond to a few of your points.

1. Although organizations obviously have obligations under various provincial legislation (human rights codes, pay equity legislation, etc), there is legislated requirement for organizations to have or use EDI hiring policies or practices. So if an organization decides to have or use an EDI hiring policy, it is presumably because the organization has identified that diversity in its workforce (or at least in certain positions in its workforce) is an asset. Not sure what that has to do with the "progressive left" or why government would want to get involved to discourage such things?

2. Those decisions aren't about "forgetting" anyone's contributions. They are generally about recognizing a person's negative contributions as well as their positive contributions, and then trying to balance those somehow. Those sorts of decisions usually involve significant public consultation/debate before being made (they certainly should, anyway). They're difficult decisions.

3. Examples?

4. I'm not aware of any large municipality in Canada that has reduced funding to its police service (indeed, in Ontario, all municipalities that I'm aware continue to increase funding to police services).

5. Those decisions are made either by courts or specialized administrative tribunals, usually following lengthy hearings and based on evidence and the arguments of counsel (with all participants being presumably from across the political spectrum). Not sure what it has to do with the "progressive left".

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions
What overuse? Specific examples. Why is striving for equality going too far? Where should it stop? Why, specifically, does it bother you?

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues
Nobody is forgetting. It's just not honouring people who caused great harm to others. it has zero effect on you(if you really think deeply) but helps reduce re-wounding those harmed by the policies of these people. Do you think they should just all man up? Not have historical wounds? What would YOU suggest, other than nothing, to help? Or do you just not care about others?

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality
I'd love an example of how "woke" is doing this, and perhaps compare it to what the right does before answering. "politicizing science leads to inequality" is not the left doing that. Come on man, have some awareness. Politics absolutely should use science to guide it. Would you prefer policy guided by ignorance?

4. Defunding the police
I'm sure you can't even define properly why this is "woke"

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges
OK, so now you are just re-purposing centuries old debates. And if alternative justice can lead to more positive outcomes, are you only against it for your own punishment-lust?

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press
Free press is good, lying for clicks is bad. Selling racist coffee by the press is bad. Restricting that is good. Some restrictions are essential.

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies
OK, but no one is doing that except the right. You want to participate in society? The social contract is such that you have responsibilities. Some of those might included doing something pretty minor to protect the vulnerable and society at large. If you don't want to do that, you can not do that, but you then do not have the right to participate in a society you walked away from the social contract on. You can still do stuff, but maybe not ALL the stuff. For good reason. You know, like saving lives.

8. Etc.
OK, so woke is everything then.

Essentially to summarize, you've defined "woke" as things you personally don't like. Most of these things are about caring for others and society at large to work towards a larger number of people have better outcomes. So you are against caring for people and society. You could just say that, rather than trying to user a trash word to encapsulate your views.

I understand you are old and change is scary, but most of what you seem to think is woke is just differing views on the path for society, and these views tend not to be Conservative, because Conservative views don't do change, by definition. They strive to hold on to old ways, like, say, slavery, because things were pretty good then.

This is why anyone using woke is just using it as a cover for their actual meaning, which tends to be pretty evil. You can't be a caring compassionate person and also be against "woke" as you choose to define it.

[blender]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice.

I would mention for your consideration, that for there to be a fight for justice, there would have been a historical injustice done or an existing unjust situation. In either case, how can one measure the extent of the fight for justice as "too far"?

Either there is injustice which needs to be corrected, or there isn’t. Holding the value of justice against economic factors or social convenience is an injustice in itself.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Makarov

4. I'm not aware of any large municipality in Canada that has reduced funding to its police service (indeed, in Ontario, all municipalities that I'm aware continue to increase funding to police services).

Alberta’s UCP, hallmarks of the woke progressive left movement, have indeed cut $28 million from Calgary Police’s operational budget.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions

The entire point of DEI is to make sure the most qualified people get the jobs. DEI is about making sure minorities and women get a chance to show they are the most qualified for the job, rather than a white guy hiring another white guy. Anyone who says they are against DEI because they think the job should go to the most qualified person, is just explaining that they don't understand the concept.

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

Hiding the fact that people did terrible things just because the also did some good things is just as bad. Pointing renaming a bridge because the guy we named it after was the architect of an abusive system isn't rewriting, or ignoring history, it's the opposite of that. It's making sure we are fully aware of that history, and the entirely of the impact that person had, and more importantly, deciding if we want to honor them within the context of their entire body of work.

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

The side that is politicizing science is the side that rejects it. Science is not political. FULL STOP. You don't hear Democrats or Liberals saying stuff like "I don't trust scientists" Heck our own Premier is the one that said she was tired of listening to experts.

4. Defunding the police

"Defunding the police" is about making sure that funds are used in the most effective way possible, and making sure we are doing the most good. Dollars that are being spend sending someone with a gun to arrest someone having a mental health crisis could better be spent sending qualified professionals who are trained to properly help. That's just one example, but it illustrated the concept, and the intention behind "Defund the police".

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

This is a matter of opinion. I'll let you have this one. However, I think there is a legitimate conversation to be had with regard to a punishment vs rehabilitation approach to justice.

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press

Again, this isn't something "Woke" people do. You've got Dotard down south kicking reporters out because he doesn't like them. Our own Premier, and Pierre Polieve attack the "Main stream media" because they don't like their reporting, even when it's factual. PP wants to defund the CBC becuase he thinks they are "woke". The "Non-Woke" crowd are the ones who want to restrict the press.

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

I assume this is the old Vaccine grievance. No one was forced to take a vaccine. People were given a choice. Yes, that choice came with consequences, sometimes harsh, but sometimes we need to make tough decisions. But I'll point out that the same people that tend to make this point, also have no problem telling women they shouldn't have autonomy over their bodies when it comes to pregnancy.

8. Etc.

You just listed a bunch of proof that most of the people who complain about these things don't understand them.

You just want to use "Woke" as a catch all for your grievances.
Everything you mentioned, are either concepts you clearly don't understand, or examples of things that the "Non-Woke" parties are actively, or planning to do.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Something tells me Carney is a bit smarter than Trudeau.

Butts and Telford and co have targeted Alberta for 10 years while happy to take our transfer payments. If they are not the architects of our misfortune tell me who? Pretty boy isn’t that smart. And Wilkinson and Guilbeault sing from their song sheet.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Butts and Telford and co have targeted Alberta for 10 years while happy to take our transfer payments. If they are not the architects of our misfortune tell me who? Pretty boy isn’t that smart. And Wilkinson and Guilbeault sing from their song sheet.

There's a lot to unpack here. Let's start with Alberta's "misfortune". Can you please describe how the wealthiest, most productive province in Canada has suffered misfortune for the past ten years?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Woke for me is about telling the Progressive Left where they are going too far in their fight for justice. For example:

1. The overuse of the concept, "diversity, equity and inclusion" in the hiring process e.g. universities, critically important positions

2. Forgetting the contribution of those who worked and sacrificed to get us where we are today. e.g. renaming schools, streets, and tearing down statues

3. Politicizing science, leading to disinformation and inequality

4. Defunding the police

5. Being too soft on crime e.g. paroling people who are judged to be high risk to reoffend, putting hardened criminals in sweat lodges

6. Adopting measures which restrict freedom of the press

7. Mandating against a person's right to decide what goes into their bodies

8. Etc.

hahah. no

Woke to you is things you appear not to understand

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Makarov

There's a lot to unpack here. Let's start with Alberta's "misfortune". Can you please describe how the wealthiest, most productive province in Canada has suffered misfortune for the past ten years?

I just dismissed the take after reading ‘our transfer payments’.