Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You want to see what Conservatism in Canada will look like then just cast your gaze to the UK, the Tories there have broken the country, they privatized everything in sight, cut taxes, made major cuts to the budget in the name of austerity.

Weirdly all this did was destroy the economy and made the UK poorer, a 20% cut to the police didn't save money because crime exploded, filling the jails to bursting and massively increasing insurance and private security costs, massive cuts to the health service didn't save money because sick people can't work and pay taxes so the UK's disability benefit numbers exploded while increasing private healthcare

It tuns out private companies aren't more efficient than the Government at running essential services but unlike the Government they are really efficient at engaging in predatory pricing when they have a monopoly on essential services and they don't care about public opinion and see killing the occasional customer as just a reasonable cost of business

Right wing fantasy economics has broken the UK, quite possibly forever

For all the bellyaching about how broken Canada is, and how we are financially screwed, when you compare it to other countries you have to wonder where they are all getting their talking points from.






https://www.desjardins.com/ab/en/sav...uary-2024.html

[madmike]

I hate deficit spending but when the U.S. is running a massive continual deficit and you’re competing with them for business, some deficit spending is inevitable.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by blender

I'd be very leery of anyone campaigning on a balanced budget right now. It will be impossible in the uncertainty of the next 4 years (at least) without cutting social spending in a Trumpian way.

For what it is worth, Carney said he will balance operational spending in three years.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

For what it is worth, Carney said he will balance operational spending in three years.

So program cuts.

A variance from the Trudeau Government’s statement during their 2017 run.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

So program cuts.

A variance from the Trudeau Government’s statement during their 2017 run.

He hasn't said how but he is an economic wizard so he'll certainly find a way to make it happen.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

He hasn't said how but he is an economic wizard so he'll certainly find a way to make it happen.

Sorry, is this sarcasm?

[Roughneck]

Gonna be some excited accountants getting to figure out what OpEx can be moved to CapEx.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Gonna be some excited accountants getting to figure out what OpEx can be moved to CapEx.

This is my hobby depending on which way the budget winds are blowing

[blender]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

For what it is worth, Carney said he will balance operational spending in three years.

Well, "operational spending" could theoretically not include special crisis money if we get into a trade war, plus 3 years gives him some runway to pivot if necessary.

I guess politicians are going to do politics, though.
I'm still leery but I still trust Carney more than anyone else at the moment.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Meh. I've been one of Cliff's biggest critics on here, but I'm never going to chastize someone for course-correcting when they see what a sham the current iteration of the CPC is.

I’ve never been a CPC supporter. I’m a centrist dad who hadn’t completely discounted voting for them in the next election, provided they weren’t in thrall to the far right element of the party. But that’s no longer in question, is it?

Trump’s second administration is worse than I had imagined it could possibly be. He’s not only doing all the crazy #### he threatened to do, he’s coming up with new crazy #### every day. And the checks and balances in the system have failed to restrain him. America’s liberal institutions and civic norms are smouldering rubble.

And have Canadian conservatives spoken out and denounced Trump’s destruction? Nope. Not only are his Canadian MAGA fans cheering him on, but moderate conservatives can’t bring themselves to criticize him for fear of dividing the right.

I like to follow media across the mainstream to get a range of views. Fo the last couple years my non-insane Canadian conservative source has been the Hub Dialogues podcast. They’ve now dedicated two entire 40 minute podcasts to the changing political landscape in Canada, and not once acknowledged that the CPC’s association with MAGA and Trumpism is contributing to the tightening of polls. It’s all Trudeau and Carney and Canadian nationalism. Since I doubt these guys are idiots, they’re avoiding the elephant in the room because they simply can’t bring themselves to call out the populist far right. Just like Poilievre can’t. They need them. And clearly they won’t stand up to them.

So I guess I have course-corrected: from ‘meh, we’ll see’ to ‘they must be stopped.’

[puffnstuff]

Yeah, when you see that 40 plus percent of CPC voters approve of what trump is doing you realize the CPC absolutely cant pivot if they want to keep those votes. Those voters will go somewhere further right.

And honestly pp really doesnt seem capable of change and probably doesnt want to anyways.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So I guess I have course-corrected: from ‘meh, we’ll see’ to ‘they must be stopped.’

That's sort of what I meant. It kinda felt previously that you were discounting a lot of their rhetoric when some of us were sounding the alarm bells.

Anyways, all I was trying to say is that having someone go "Oh, okay. Maybe they are dangerous," shouldn't be met with victory laps and "I told you so."

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You want to see what Conservatism in Canada will look like then just cast your gaze to the UK, the Tories there have broken the country, they privatized everything in sight, cut taxes, made major cuts to the budget in the name of austerity.

Weirdly all this did was destroy the economy and made the UK poorer, a 20% cut to the police didn't save money because crime exploded, filling the jails to bursting and massively increasing insurance and private security costs, massive cuts to the health service didn't save money because sick people can't work and pay taxes so the UK's disability benefit numbers exploded while increasing private healthcare

It tuns out private companies aren't more efficient than the Government at running essential services but unlike the Government they are really efficient at engaging in predatory pricing when they have a monopoly on essential services and they don't care about public opinion and see killing the occasional customer as just a reasonable cost of business

Right wing fantasy economics has broken the UK, quite possibly forever

Funny how the maga lemmings on here will criticize every word Carney speaks yet won't say a god damn thing about deplorable yapdog PPs 45 min maga speech from yesterday. hhahaha

Scared I guess.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So I guess I have course-corrected: from ‘meh, we’ll see’ to ‘they must be stopped.’

I suspect your sudden change is more related to something that has happened quite recently e.g. Trump's victory and crazy behavior, because not much has changed in what the Conservatives have been saying for the past year.

In your attempt to link PP to Trump, can you see PP ramming through his agenda, appointing unqualified people, breaking the law, acting unpredictably etc.?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Meh. I've been one of Cliff's biggest critics on here, but I'm never going to chastize someone for course-correcting when they see what a sham the current iteration of the CPC is.

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's sort of what I meant. It kinda felt previously that you were discounting a lot of their rhetoric when some of us were sounding the alarm bells.

Anyways, all I was trying to say is that having someone go "Oh, okay. Maybe they are dangerous," shouldn't be met with victory laps and "I told you so."

CF wasn't discounting anything. He's always been a moderate old school centrist from what I have seen (who has no problem voting Liberal when they aren't drinking the ideological koolaid). He sees issues with CPC leadership and populist elements / Maple MAGA and has criticized it quite openly and a fair bit way many times before. He just seems like a CPC supporter when criticizing the Liberals or policies by some of the more notorious far left partisans on this forum, who's own slant make the center look far right. I've voted Liberal and NDP and yet people think I have ##### Trudeau flags on a pick up truck because I dare to actually criticize our government.

With Carney seemingly shifting the Liberals back to the radical center at least on paper, they become more palatable to someone who wants nothing to do with MAGA while the CPC is choosing to be wishy washy on what's now a clear white elephant. The dislike for what the US has become and the thought of annexation is so strong, that suddenly it becomes a core election issue for many that was not present a few months ago. I do not believe that any Canadian truly believed that Canada's sovereignty was ever at stake until last month. That absolutely changes perspectives.

Do I think that the CPC will turn into North MAGA vassal state with the CPC being elected? No. Had Harris / Democrats have won, I think CPC would have won the election handily as a result of Canadians being deeply angry at the Liberals / NDP, would have legislated several good bills and a few stupid social right ones that they can't help themselves on, but nothing earth shattering or Canada breaking. A good portion of CPC members are still moderate conservatives and Canada just does not have the support for a party to go full MAGA.

Do I think they absolutely need to address that the US has become a fascist state that plans to destroy Canada economically or worse, it has become the #1 concern of most Canadians and that the CPC has some very uncomfortable ties with the far right that needs to be cut out to be electable today that the party previously did not need to address? Absolutely. If they want to stick to their guns and keep Elon Musk's endorsement and association and blame Trudeau / Carney instead of fighting back against Trump, they fully deserve to lose what was pretty much a certain win as they will all but assuredly lose the centrist and moderate voters who may have been pissed off at the Liberals / NDP but are Canadians first, not MAGA hat wearers.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I suspect your sudden change is more related to something that has happened quite recently e.g. Trump's victory and crazy behavior, because not much has changed in what the Conservatives have been saying for the past year.

In your attempt to link PP to Trump, can you see PP ramming through his agenda, appointing unqualified people, breaking the law, acting unpredictably etc.?

Yes but I get there by linking him to Smith rather than Trump.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I suspect your sudden change is more related to something that has happened quite recently e.g. Trump's victory and crazy behavior, because not much has changed in what the Conservatives have been saying for the past year.

In your attempt to link PP to Trump, can you see PP ramming through his agenda, appointing unqualified people, breaking the law, acting unpredictably etc.?

Yes yes yes and yes.

Trudeau has been accused of all four of those things hundreds of times in these threads over the last decade, sometimes even with merit. Not sure why anyone would expect better from PP at this point.

[Johnny Makarov]

woah. Harper wanted Carney to be his finance minister.

Things are getting desperate for PP. Getting his wife to chime in now! only to be shut down...beyond disgraceful. Just like her lapdog husband. lol

On Wednesday, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre's wife, Anaida Poilievre, criticized Carney on social media and claimed the former central banker was "claiming the legacy of a man who has since passed" — referring to Flaherty, who died in 2014.

Chisholm Pothier, who worked as Flaherty's deputy chief of staff and director of communications, came to Carney's defence in his own post on social media.

"Oh please. I was there and Carney played a big role," Pothier said. "Flaherty and Harper provided the political leadership that was key, but Carney was on deck with insight and smart monetary policy."
Trying to erase that for partisan reasons is, well, beyond disgraceful, to match your hyperbole

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mar...rper-1.7460897

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Firebot

I've voted Liberal and NDP and yet people think I have ##### Trudeau flags on a pick up truck because I dare to actually criticize our government.

Nah. We just think you're a deeply unserious and uneducated dweeb who says dumb #### like "Trudeau invented the term dogwhistle."

Do I think that the CPC will turn into North MAGA vassal state think CPC would have won the election handily as a result of Canadians being deeply angry at the Liberals / NDP, would have legislated several good bills and a few stupid social right ones that they can't help themselves on, but nothing earth shattering or Canada breaking.

Just stripping trans people of their rights, humanity, and dignity. Nbd for fellas like us, right?

Do I think they absolutely need to address that the US has become a fascist state that plans to destroy Canada economically or worse, it has become the #1 concern of most Canadians and that the CPC has some very uncomfortable ties with the far right that needs to be cut out to be electable today that the party previously did not need to address

Weird. A few months ago you were accusing the "extreme left" of being over the top for basically saying the exact same ####.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

I’ve seen enough social media posts to think most of them are now just American simps. They can’t even criticize Trump for his actions, they turn it all back on Trudeau.

Well, everyone can criticize Trump for his actions all we want, but its not like we have any control over what Trump does, and you gotta be pretty bloody dumb to not see that Canada has been sleep walking into this issue for decades.

No matter which way we want to cut it, or who is in charge (Biden kept original Trump tariffs as well, didn't he even increase them?), Canada being so dependent on the US and having literally no plan in place to actually export our natural resources to the rest of the world is nobody's fault but our own.

Even the Buy Canada stuff, why haven't we been doing that all along? Why don't we have federal legislation that requires food packaging to have proper labels?

Then you have the inter provincial trade issues which were seriously discussed since 2019, and nothing really done about it.

Our inability to export oil & gas to the rest of the world.

TMX expansion was so ridiculously over budget and yet despite that its quite evident its likely still economically a good deal for the government in terms of ROI. And yet despite that we have people saying there is no business case for pipelines.

Anything going east, Quebec is already saying if it doesn't benefit them, they don't want it. What about benefiting the entire country?

We also know the US government has been using disinformation to make sure Canada doesn't actually export our oil anywhere else other than the US.

On and on we go.

Canada is a natural resource country. By all means we should be the richest country in in the world. But somehow we love getting in the way of ourselves when it comes actually accomplishing anything.

But hey, its the CPC party. They haven't been in charge for 9 years, but its THEIR FAULT.