At that point isn’t it essentially profiting twice?
If they fail to drum up the extra business or decide to shut down operations the following year they essentially get a write off for zero benefit to the taxpayers.
I’m not saying businesses shouldn’t have the ability to write off any of these types of expenses but I think your view of it as an absolute necessity is rype for abuses.
How does a company profit from the direct activity of buying tickets or entertainment for prospective clients? It's a business expense just like advertising is. It takes expenses to attract new business, this is simply one of the forms of expenses incurred to achieve such and like most/all other expenses a business incurs is netted against revenue to calculate taxable income.
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At that point isn’t it essentially profiting twice?
If they fail to drum up the extra business or decide to shut down operations the following year they essentially get a write off for zero benefit to the taxpayers.
I’m not saying businesses shouldn’t have the ability to write off any of these types of expenses but I think your view of it as an absolute necessity is rype for abuses.
You're not someone who has ever run a business. I mean, how can you even take this seriously? Companies trying to earn more business shouldn't be able to write that off. But when they do this and bring in more revenue, I'm sure you think that should be taxable?
If anything, some of the current restrictions on what you can write off are just plain non-sensical and should be eliminated.
I don't think people really realize how much a company saves (or doesn't) when it "writes something off". You basically take the amount and deduct it from your revenue What's left over is your taxable income (ie, it's income tax, not revenue tax). Your income then gets taxed at 23% generally in Alberta (Federal + Provincial rates combined).
Meals & Entertainment like Flames tickets are also only 50% deductible. Something like your employee's salary, printer paper, etc...normal business expenses would be fully deductible.
If you spend $1000 on paper, you would "save" $230 in taxes. The business is still net out of pocket $770. If you spend $1000 on Flames tickets, you'd "save" $115 in taxes, or be out of pocket $885.
The write off doesn't mean you get anything for free, just makes things slightly less expensive. And a profit motivated business is better off reducing the expenses, not spending more to save on taxes.
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How does a company profit from the direct activity of buying tickets or entertainment for prospective clients? It's a business expense just like advertising is. It takes expenses to attract new business, this is simply one of the forms of expenses incurred to achieve such and like most/all other expenses a business incurs is netted against revenue to calculate taxable income.
Honest question, have you ever been gifted tickets to a hockey game by someone who writes them off as a business expense when you going to the game will have zero impact on their business?
LOL. He's supposed to work for free now? God, people have the most outrageous expectations of people in public office (and public service for that matter). Meanwhile, the CEO of a corporation the size of the City of Calgary is earning millions of dollars a year...
They're probably the same people also complaining about being unable to get qualified people to run for office.
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You're not someone who has ever run a business. I mean, how can you even take this seriously?
If you say so.
I really do appreciate this lame attempt at attacking my credibility because what you’re saying is basically if you were right about this then my opinion should be dismissed. All while ignoring the fact that most businesses owners fail from time to time. Based on what we’re seeing going on south of the border even the ones who are successful really don’t appear to have the best interests of society as a whole on their radars. But I guess yeah let’s just blindly do whatever businesses tell us will be good for everyone!
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Companies trying to earn more business shouldn't be able to write that off. But when they do this and bring in more revenue, I'm sure you think that should be taxable?
How do you prove that the gift in itself is what brought in the additional recenue? I mean seriously, since according to you I know nothing about running a business enlighten me as to how much sway a pair of say $1000 hockey tickets is realistically going to have on an investment opportunity to make millions?
As Cowperson pointed out, you’re not even getting the full $1000 back, so let’s say they would get $200 back from the write off, is the difference really going to cause the business to not pay the full amount for the kickback that is according to you necessary to grow their business?
This conversation in itself started with a business literally using their write off to sway the government to give them contracts paid for with tax dollars. That to me is problematic. You’re welcome to disagree if you like.
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If anything, some of the current restrictions on what you can write off are just plain non-sensical and should be eliminated.
Well I’m sure as a business owner you’d like as many claimable expenses as possible but that doesn’t mean it’s sensible tax policy just because it benefits you. I imagine you’re not currently struggling to make ends meet so I assume the current system isn’t exactly harming you or making your business unviable.
Honest question, have you ever been gifted tickets to a hockey game by someone who writes them off as a business expense when you going to the game will have zero impact on their business?
Honest question, have you ever been gifted tickets to a hockey game by someone who writes them off as a business expense when you going to the game will have zero impact on their business?
I know I have.
I don't even like hockey, but I'm always down for a good time. Flames games are fun.
I have customers who give me tickets.
My landlord for my business's facility gives me tickets.
With the customers, you honestly can't help but be "more than fair" when pricing their stuff. There is a tit-for-tat thing that humans can't help but abide by. For customers that give me tickets, I - practically subconsciously - want to show my appreciation, so I always give good-guy pricing. Their few hundred dollars in tickets more than saves them in the future. Plus then you are kind of bros with that guy. It's such a small goodwill investment that absolutely pays off for the gift giver.
Business dudes with good seats they share with customers and suppliers are not morons. Greasing palms and giving personal perks totally pays off. You're like a hero to your family - "c'mon kids...I have four tickets to the game tonight. We'll be right against the glass!" Then a few weeks later I knock 10% off their bill and it's more than a wash and we're both happy.
My landlord is always generous with his tickets, too. You don't think that makes it harder to complain about gravel in the parking lot, or minor grievances with neighbouring tenants? You really think I'm going to annoy my landlord because one of the other businesses parked in my spot the week after going to a Flames game using the landlord's season tickets? No, I'm going to suck it up because he's giving me a perk somewhere else.
Flames got paid, I had a night out that was "free" for me, so I'll spend a stupid amount at the Dome and hit The Keg for supper on the way down. Economy feels a little tiny micro-pop. Everyone wins.
I think if you're going to accept the tickets and not reciprocate in some way then you shouldn't accept the tickets. That's the problem with politicians accepting tickets. There is an absolute expectation that you'll return the favour. It's okay to do that in a private business, but not if you work for the public.
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I really do appreciate this lame attempt at attacking my credibility because what you’re saying is basically if you were right about this then my opinion should be dismissed. All while ignoring the fact that most businesses owners fail from time to time. Based on what we’re seeing going on south of the border even the ones who are successful really don’t appear to have the best interests of society as a whole on their radars. But I guess yeah let’s just blindly do whatever businesses tell us will be good for everyone!
How do you prove that the gift in itself is what brought in the additional recenue? I mean seriously, since according to you I know nothing about running a business enlighten me as to how much sway a pair of say $1000 hockey tickets is realistically going to have on an investment opportunity to make millions?
As Cowperson pointed out, you’re not even getting the full $1000 back, so let’s say they would get $200 back from the write off, is the difference really going to cause the business to not pay the full amount for the kickback that is according to you necessary to grow their business?
This conversation in itself started with a business literally using their write off to sway the government to give them contracts paid for with tax dollars. That to me is problematic. You’re welcome to disagree if you like.
Well I’m sure as a business owner you’d like as many claimable expenses as possible but that doesn’t mean it’s sensible tax policy just because it benefits you. I imagine you’re not currently struggling to make ends meet so I assume the current system isn’t exactly harming you or making your business unviable.
I'm just going to admit I glossed over this and got bored, so I don't really know what point you're trying to make. I'm not sure why I quoted you, maybe to remind myself why I don't generally do that.
I don't even like hockey, but I'm always down for a good time. Flames games are fun.
I have customers who give me tickets.
My landlord for my business's facility gives me tickets.
With the customers, you honestly can't help but be "more than fair" when pricing their stuff. There is a tit-for-tat thing that humans can't help but abide by. For customers that give me tickets, I - practically subconsciously - want to show my appreciation, so I always give good-guy pricing. Their few hundred dollars in tickets more than saves them in the future. Plus then you are kind of bros with that guy. It's such a small goodwill investment that absolutely pays off for the gift giver.
Business dudes with good seats they share with customers and suppliers are not morons. Greasing palms and giving personal perks totally pays off. You're like a hero to your family - "c'mon kids...I have four tickets to the game tonight. We'll be right against the glass!" Then a few weeks later I knock 10% off their bill and it's more than a wash and we're both happy.
My landlord is always generous with his tickets, too. You don't think that makes it harder to complain about gravel in the parking lot, or minor grievances with neighbouring tenants? You really think I'm going to annoy my landlord because one of the other businesses parked in my spot the week after going to a Flames game using the landlord's season tickets? No, I'm going to suck it up because he's giving me a perk somewhere else.
Flames got paid, I had a night out that was "free" for me, so I'll spend a stupid amount at the Dome and hit The Keg for supper on the way down. Economy feels a little tiny micro-pop. Everyone wins.
I guess my question would be with all of these benefits to the giver why do they need a write off to boot? I’m not trying to argue that allowing the write off couldn’t be justified in certain situations, but I’m sure you(as well as Slava and Cowboy) would agree that it’s obviously being abused to some degree.
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I think if you're going to accept the tickets and not reciprocate in some way then you shouldn't accept the tickets. That's the problem with politicians accepting tickets. There is an absolute expectation that you'll return the favour. It's okay to do that in a private business, but not if you work for the public.
I don’t mind the idea of businesses offering gifts or other kickbacks to clients, I just have a hard time understanding the absolute sense of entitlement to the write off while not even attempting to acknowledge or address the fraudulent application of a tax policy. Maybe some of the opponents are in on the grift?
I guess my question would be with all of these benefits to the giver why do they need a write off to boot? I’m not trying to argue that allowing the write off couldn’t be justified in certain situations, but I’m sure you(as well as Slava and Cowboy) would agree that it’s obviously being abused to some degree.
I don’t mind the idea of businesses offering gifts or other kickbacks to clients, I just have a hard time understanding the absolute sense of entitlement to the write off while not even attempting to acknowledge or address the fraudulent application of a tax policy. Maybe some of the opponents are in on the grift?
But it's a legitimate business expense. It's marketing. Surely I should be able to write-off my Google Adwords, my mail-outs, my boulevard sign, my on-hold message, etc., right? This is the exact same thing, but arguably with better results.
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I'm just going to admit I glossed over this and got bored, so I don't really know what point you're trying to make. I'm not sure why I quoted you, maybe to remind myself why I don't generally do that.
My theory on the bolded is that it’s a result of your insecurities taking over and putting you into auto-pilot.
My theory on why you don’t generally quote me or respond beyond your drive-by attempts is that it may also have to do with your insecurities. Though to be fair, you’re a reasonably intelligent person so perhaps you just simply realized that you’re not that great at debating issues or defending what you say so you’ve decided to take this unique approach at getting around doing so.
Mind you I’m not psychiatrist or anything like that so you’ll have to take my assessment with a grain of salt, that being said I think you and I are having a really meaningful breakthrough here Slava.
Honest question, have you ever been gifted tickets to a hockey game by someone who writes them off as a business expense when you going to the game will have zero impact on their business?
I know I have.
There is certainly huge abuse of these types of "write offs"
Like, as much as people go on about welfare fraud, I have seen some pretty crazy boys trips written off as business/marketing expenses.
