2024 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

What did they lose? There is no salary cap and it didn't stop them from signing Santander or Scherzer and it didn't stop them from reportedly being in on Alonso and Bregman.

His contract sucks but if they're willing to spend who cares?

It's not like Straw is completely useless either. He's decent depth who can play above average defense in all OF spots and is also an above average baserunner with solid speed. Might come in handy.

I'd agree if his acquisition was holding the jays back from doing other things, but clearly it's not.

There' no league salary cap but Rogers isn't running the team with a Cohen-style unlimited budget. It's high, which is great, but not unlimited. So how management spends that money matters, and paying that amount of $ for an outfield depth piece hurts you somewhere else.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flambers

I don't believe it is dangerous to assume, Jays in my view have a salary cap.

They had to wait until they knew what was happening before they went in what ever directions they had planned

Gimenez clearly was the plan,

But what did they miss out on?

They didn’t miss signing another free agent while waiting for Soto, all the 2nd tier free agents wait for the big names to sign.

And if Gimenez was plan B then they didn’t miss out at all by going after Soto.

In the end there is no lost opportunity by going after names like Soto, or Burnes

[flambers]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But what did they miss out on?

They didn’t miss signing another free agent while waiting for Soto, all the 2nd tier free agents wait for the big names to sign.

And if Gimenez was plan B then they didn’t miss out at all by going after Soto.

In the end there is no lost opportunity by going after names like Soto, or Burnes

Gimenez was likely plan A, big name hitters are the area that's lacking

Did they miss out, who knows,

Is this a playoff caliber roster, my guess its not.

Why waste time and effort on a player like Soto, where the player had zero intentions to sign. Where is the benefit,

My guess the agent simply used the Jays to push up the deals,

Until the Jays can sign Vladdy, the other big name players won't sign.

Its too risky, sign with the Jays, Vladdy leaves, re-tool starts.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

"It may have...."

Imaginary horribles again

We don't have OF defense in spades and Varsho starts the year injured after surgery.

Again, obviously it wasn't a good deal, but people constantly flipping out over it and calling it "terrible" is a massive over reaction to things they've made up in their heads after they missed out of Sasaki because he chose to go to the Dodgers.

The deal has clearly not held them back from continuing to sign players and attempt to sign even more.

All I can say is it may have. Think about it though - the Jays have a budget to stick to. If they're wasting money on a role player, that's less money to spend on someone else potentially. That money could be used to go above and beyond for a more useful player like Bregman, or today Kenley Jansen signed for $10M. I'm just saying this could be the difference between getting a legit player or not. The Jays don't have an unlimited budget.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flambers

Gimenez was likely plan A, big name hitters are the area that's lacking

Did they miss out, who knows,

Is this a playoff caliber roster, my guess its not.

Why waste time and effort on a player like Soto, where the player had zero intentions to sign. Where is the benefit,

My guess the agent simply used the Jays to push up the deals,

Until the Jays can sign Vladdy, the other big name players won't sign.

Its too risky, sign with the Jays, Vladdy leaves, re-tool starts.

If it ends up driving up the price for the Mets and Yankees it's not wasted time or effort right there.

In the end I hate the idea a player had "Zero intentions to sign".

Soto was always going to the highest bidder, Jays were in the conversation until the Mets went crazy. That's what all reports say.

With Burnes they were in it, but in the end Burnes decided Arizona was a better fit for less money.

Even with Ohtani - he didn't go to Toronto and Florida to see the Jays training facilities just because he was bored. LA was his preferred option but he was always going to at least look at what else is on the market.

It doesn't mean a player had zero intentions to sign - that's just stuff detractors like to say after the fact.

In the end free agents only pick one team and I'd rather these guys try to go after stars than just sit it out all together because in the end they might not sign the guy.

AA was in on a lot of free agents he didn't sign (and still is in Atlanta too), even gave up assets to try to get a head start on some of them like Price, but for some reason it's only an issue if these guys don't sign the best free agents.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bluejays

All I can say is it may have. Think about it though - the Jays have a budget to stick to. If they're wasting money on a role player, that's less money to spend on someone else potentially. That money could be used to go above and beyond for a more useful player like Bregman, or today Kenley Jansen signed for $10M. I'm just saying this could be the difference between getting a legit player or not. The Jays don't have an unlimited budget.

The bottom line is nobody that keeps calling the deal "terrible" can point to anything tangible that makes it terrible except for money, which if you're not the one paying the bills then who cares?

Obviously the ones paying the bills don't care or they wouldn't have signed off on it.

[SuperMatt18]

Here are the reasons to blame Atkins and Shapiro:

1) Over rotated after the 2022 playoff loss that was caused by poor defense, bad bullpen, and lack of consistency of the bats - and moved Hernandez, Moreno, and Gurriel Jr.

2) Drafting hasn't been great and was supposed to be a strength of this management team

3) Manager decisions have been questionable...first with Montoyo and now with Schneider.

4) They have kind of butchered the Vlad and Bo contract situations (not entirely their fault since the players inconsistency plays a role too)

Those are the reasons to criticize these GMs. Getting mad at them for trying to sign two of the best free agents ever in Soto and Ohtani is not.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Soto was always going to the highest bidder, Jays were in the conversation until the Mets went crazy. That's what all reports say.

With Burnes they were in it, but in the end Burnes decided Arizona was a better fit for less money.

With Soto, he went after the money, and he went after the correct team...

There is no way, he would have signed with the Jays IMO, even if they had the highest offer

Agent simply was using other teams to drive up the contract.

Speculated comments from Burnes,

"Sources: Corbin Burnes reps met again with #BlueJays and #Giants today. From what I hear Burnes is skeptical of the #BlueJays future plans surrounding Vladdy and Bo. He doesn’t want to get locked up there to see them leave next winter. "

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by flambers

With Soto, he went after the money, and he went after the correct team...

There is no way, he would have signed with the Jays IMO, even if they had the highest offer

Agent simply was using other teams to drive up the contract.

Speculated comments from Burnes,

"Sources: Corbin Burnes reps met again with #BlueJays and #Giants today. From what I hear Burnes is skeptical of the #BlueJays future plans surrounding Vladdy and Bo. He doesn’t want to get locked up there to see them leave next winter. "

Then Burnes should have negotiated outs or player based options and rejoined the free agent market if the Jays didn’t commit to Vladdy and Bo. Sounds to me like that’s just a convenient excuse

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flambers

With Soto, he went after the money, and he went after the correct team...

There is no way, he would have signed with the Jays IMO, even if they had the highest offer

Agent simply was using other teams to drive up the contract.

Speculated comments from Burnes,

"Sources: Corbin Burnes reps met again with #BlueJays and #Giants today. From what I hear Burnes is skeptical of the #BlueJays future plans surrounding Vladdy and Bo. He doesn’t want to get locked up there to see them leave next winter. "

Which doesn't mean that going after Burnes is the reason to fault them.

The reason to fault them is that they haven't made a decision on Bo and Vladdy. They should either have been signed or traded by now. Maybe tougher in Bo's case since his value is low after a bad season and a hot start actually might make him more valuable. But Vladdy should have been figured out by now.

And on Soto I don't think it's that easy. If it wasn't about money he stays with the Yankees - all the noise around him was he was going to the highest bidder. I think the Jays had a legitmate chance but in the end the Mets offer wasn't going to get turned down.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Then Burnes should have negotiated outs or player based options and rejoined the free agent market if the Jays didn’t commit to Vladdy and Bo. Sounds to me like that’s just a convenient excuse

In my view, its a real issue,

if Vladdy goes, Jays could be in a retool / rebuild situation

[KelVarnsen]

Free agents don't usually sign a contract with a 1 year option unless its really late in the off season

[JTech780]

Dodgers have signed Kershaw, Kike Hernandez, and don’t have Sasaki on their 40 man yet, they are going to have to move some good talent out to make room for those 3.

Jays should take a run at Dustin May, he is out of options, he is similar to Pearson because he has that big arm, but hasn’t been able to stay healthy and put it all together, but at the very least he could be a guy throwing 100mph out of the bullpen. I think he is still worth a shot.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If it ends up driving up the price for the Mets and Yankees it's not wasted time or effort right there.

I agree with this (and have made similar posts in the past). But now I'm wondering if that is part of the problem with Vladdy. If Soto had signed for less he might be more willing to sign a reasonable extension...

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by flambers

In my view, its a real issue,

if Vladdy goes, Jays could be in a retool / rebuild situation

I also think there was a bit of chicken and egg here.

Vladdy wanted to see what other moves the Jays made before he re-signed.

Biggest free agents were a bit hesitant to sign because Vladdy hadn't been re-signed yet.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I agree with this (and have made similar posts in the past). But now I'm wondering if that is part of the problem with Vladdy. If Soto had signed for less he might be more willing to sign a reasonable extension...

It certainly seems when the Jays lingered signing him to an extension last year, his agent informed him to hold off until the Soto contract came through. So the value of Vlad has gone up considerably after Soto signed that. The question is if the Jays can bridge the gap here. It seems from the outside that they're not close as there's been nothing that leaked, gamemanship or not. That's concerning. If he hits free agency he'll get more than what he may be demanding now. So at what point do the Jays say we're at a standstill, and we have to go our own ways?


Personally I think they'll negotiate into the deadline while having their pulse on the standings. If they're terrible, then dealing Vlad becomes an option. If they're not than they have to sign him to an inflated cost, at risk of losing him for nothing. With the team they have today it's a little scary because they're good enough to not be at the bottom this year, but not bad enough to undeniably say they're out of the hunt. So either way he's likely to get an inflated contract unless they fall out of contention early.

[flamingred89]

Pitchers and Catchers reporting today.

Regardless of the offseason and the still remaining question marks. I'm stoked ball is around the corner. Hoping for some big news in the coming days. But for better or for worse I ride or die blue and will be watching 162.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It certainly seems when the Jays lingered signing him to an extension last year, his agent informed him to hold off until the Soto contract came through. So the value of Vlad has gone up considerably after Soto signed that. The question is if the Jays can bridge the gap here. It seems from the outside that they're not close as there's been nothing that leaked, gamemanship or not. That's concerning. If he hits free agency he'll get more than what he may be demanding now. So at what point do the Jays say we're at a standstill, and we have to go our own ways?

I actually think the quiet is a good sign.

When sides are approaching a deadline, and they are far apart, that's when things get leaked about different asks, or how far apart they are.

When sides are actually working towards a solution and are actually negotiating in good faith is generally when things get quiet.

[Junglist]

Lowest expectations going into a season in years, sucks. Hopefully they surprise. At least I dont have playoff expectations.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I actually think the quiet is a good sign.

When sides are approaching a deadline, and they are far apart, that's when things get leaked about different asks, or how far apart they are.

When sides are actually working towards a solution and are actually negotiating in good faith is generally when things get quiet.

I hope you're right.