Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Sending 1.5m muslims to non-muslim countries, with no real preparation for either side of that equation, seems like a really bad idea.

No real preparation is a stretch. Europe has spent hundreds of billions on integrating refugees and has some of the most liberal social safety nets on the planet.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Sending 1.5m muslims to non-muslim countries, with no real preparation for either side of that equation, seems like a really bad idea.

There are actually about 5 million Palestinians, because there is no way this stops at just Gaza.

[TheIronMaiden]

Where are all the people who were saying this is not a genocide?

[blankall]

There are so many levels of trolling going on in this thread. Starting with the King Troll, Trump.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Sending 1.5m muslims to non-muslim countries, with no real preparation for either side of that equation, seems like a really bad idea.

There are several million Muslims in the USA. They could go there.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Zoller

Nah bro, the Jews get a free pass because of the Holocaust.

In all seriousness, if Israel is willing to deal with the consequences of it's actions, who are we to tell them what they can and can't do?

As long as they have USA support, they are probably fine. But there may come a day when Israel's increasingly tarnished reputation catches up with them. Look at South Africa; it took decades of international condemnation, sanctions and loss of funding before its collapse. The playbook is there, it might just be a matter of time.

I have unending contempt for people who see mass death, exterminations, and ethnic cleansing as a bunch of datapoints where they can stroke their chins and 'interpret' outcomes.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Zoller

I don't believe you.

Forgive me as it's my first time venturing into this section of the forum, but you don't strike me as the uninformed type.

There are millions of middle eastern refugees in Europe RIGHT NOW.



The UN would have to rip up or amend the declaration of human rights. Europe is already accepting millions of refugees from Netenyahu sponsored wars. It does work and it's BEEN working for DECADES.

Good lord man, It doesn't matter if Europe wants to take them or not, the Palestinian people will not want to go. That is why it wont work. ####ing hell.

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I have unending contempt for people who see mass death, exterminations, and ethnic cleansing as a bunch of datapoints where they can stroke their chins and 'interpret' outcomes.

Yeah, I should have clarified. I mean "who are we" as in who is Canada to tell Israel what they can and can't do.

"Oh, you better not come here or we will reluctantly have to arrest you on account of that ICC arrest warrant"

Meanwhile, Trump and Netanyahu are golfing down in Florida.

I dunno, it just feels like you can't really take anything Canada says seriously, especially on the international stage. We're small potatoes.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Zoller

Yeah, I should have clarified. I mean "who are we" as in who is Canada to tell Israel what they can and can't do.

"Oh, you better not come here or we will reluctantly have to arrest you on account of that ICC arrest warrant"

Meanwhile, Trump and Netanyahu are golfing down in Florida.

I dunno, it just feels like you can't really take anything Canada says seriously, especially on the international stage. We're small potatoes.

Who was anyone to tell the Germans what to do in the 30s and 40s?

I don't get this at all. Especially in the face of such slaughter.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And just a reminder, they were there first. They are the ones being treated unjustly. Israel has zero right to the land(and the US, as well, since I guess that now needs to be said).

Just have to chime in here. Firstly, this statement is categorically false. Arabs and Jews have lived on this land for centuries. If you care to read about Jerusalem, you will see that Jewish history there precedes Arab history. The Dome of the Rock even sits on top of the Second Jewish Temple. Theres been different times in history when the land was dominated by Jews, then by Arabs, by others, rinse and repeat.

Even so, who was there “first” (thousands of years ago) is a completely irrelevant point in history since it doesn’t mean anything. Someone was always somewhere first. That has no bearing on today’s land borders. Technically then, Canada’s native population would be completely justified to take up arms, call intifada and perform terrorist acts as “justifiable resistance”. Groups of people, nations, empires, have been taken over thousands of times in human history, with land borders redrawn. But for some reason, propaganda perhaps, the Palestinians are treated as the special exception, where it’s a crime against humanity that they no longer lay claim to a certain land mass.

The funny thing about saying they’ve been treated unfairly and land was stolen from them, is that there has never been a time in history when Palestinians have even had their own state. How can statehood be stolen from someone when they’ve never had a state to begin with? It’s mind goggling to say the least.

I’ve said it repeatedly that I would love nothing more than a two state solution and peace in the region. But this whole premise that the Palestinians have been treated unfairly, land stolen from them, etc, is such rubbish. Frankly, much of their own misery is due to the poor decisions of their leadership.


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[WideReceiver]

Magaza

[Fuzz]

It's not the state level, it's individuals who lived and owned land in the historical area, and were murdered and chased off the land. If the whole area just gets turned over to Israel and the rest of the people removed, what does that say about any of our rights? What does it tell you about the people doing it, and how much they care about rights? I know, I know, the world is a cruel place get used to it. That's not going to stop me from calling out the monstrosities of it, or understanding why Palestinians feel so aggrieved that they commit their own monstrous acts.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by WideReceiver

Magaza

I was going with Med a Lago but this is so much better

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by Language

Erm, ackshually


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Of all the posts you could have "chimed in" on, you pick THAT?

Dawg, we're WAY past that nitpicky, purposefully obtuse, "erm ackshually, did you know the technical definition is..." bla bla bla bull**** lol

We're now at the point where we can openly discuss COMPLETELY ethnically cleansing every single Palestinian. Forcibly removing them and sending them to... I dunno, Egypt? Honestly, who cares right? As long as they aren't in Israel anymore.

The sooner you stop with that disingenuous crap, the sooner we can start talking about REAL solutions. Maybe even, dare I say, final?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

I’ve said it repeatedly that I would love nothing more than a two state solution and peace in the region. But…

You have, but it’s clearly far from the truth since basically all of your efforts have been toward justifying terrible treatment, lashing out whenever someone calls that treatment what it is, and stumping for the far right Israeli government.

You want peace… ]for Israel (probably not even everyone in Israel)… and don’t particularly care how they arrive there. That’s been pretty obvious.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's not the state level, it's individuals who lived and owned land in the historical area, and were murdered and chased off the land. If the whole area just gets turned over to Israel and the rest of the people removed, what does that say about any of our rights? What does it tell you about the people doing it, and how much they care about rights? I know, I know, the world is a cruel place get used to it. That's not going to stop me from calling out the monstrosities of it, or understanding why Palestinians feel so aggrieved that they commit their own monstrous acts.

On individual level, the land was purchased, as demonstrated several times in this thread, using Arabian sources:

The main feature of the second period, which began soon after the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and extends from 1921 to 1947, is the establishment of Jewish settlements, the Kibbutzim, with the encouragement of such Jewish institutions as the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association,* the Palestine Land Development Company and the Jewish National Fund. The purpose of these three institutions was to transfer the Jewish populations of Europe to Palestine and provide them with facilities, homes, jobs and especially land in the new host country. It has been estimated that by about June 1947, the Jewish minority in Palestine had taken over 1,850,000 dunams** out of a total of 13 million dunams, mainly as a result of transactions between the above-mentioned Jewish institutions and the big Arab landowners of Palestine.3/

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208638/

Source:

Prepared for, and under the guidance of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People


It was a peaceful transaction until 1948. Maybe starting a war with official intention to destroy a state of Israel wasn't such a good idea by Arabs, you know. They said they want to "drive the Jews into the sea" and got murdered and chased away instead. And now they claim it wasn't fair. It's, for lack of better word, childish.

David Ben-Gurion, President of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared Israel’s statehood and independence. This prompted the Syrian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Iraqi, and Saudi Arabian armies to invade Israel. Thus began the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Despite being heavily outnumbered, the Israelis beat back all of their attackers and established Israel as a state. To this day the war is known as the War of Independence in Hebrew and The Catastrophe in Arabic

https://adst.org/2013/05/the-liberat...l-may-14-1948/

[Pointman]

Quick fact:

About 500 trucks per day were crossing into Gaza before the hostilities began

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sgsm22010.doc.htm

So, apparently "blockade" was a little bit overblown. 500 trucks a day is literally a truck of aid every three minutes, around the clock. Inhumane blockade, yeah, right. But that's not my point now. Those people required 500 trucks of aid every day just to make ends meet. That was before the war, before the bombings. It's not a functional state. It's more like a gigantic refugee camp, with no economy to speak of, where people just eat whatever supplies the trucks bring them. It can't continue like this.

So, when people discuss whether Palestinians have a right to live there, they better ask: who must pay for 500 trucks of aid every day? What if this stream of aid trucks just stops?

[Zoller]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Good lord man, It doesn't matter if Europe wants to take them or not, the Palestinian people will not want to go. That is why it wont work. ####ing hell.

I don't think the people in charge care about what the Palestinians want.

Check this out

Originally Posted by Pointman

It has been estimated that by about June 1947, the Jewish minority in Palestine had taken over 1,850,000 dunams** out of a total of 13 million dunams

Roger, do you REALLY think anyone cared if the Jews wanted to leave their homes to move to Palestine?

You know, if ANYONE could pull this off, it HAS to be the Jews. They have real-world experience in moving millions of people from one place to another. They've done this before; they can do it again. But this time, they FINALLY get to be the ones who aren't moving.

Originally Posted by Pointman

So, when people discuss whether Palestinians have a right to live there, they better ask: who must pay for 500 trucks of aid every day? What if this stream of aid trucks just stops?

Oh my goodness dude nooo . The stereotypes. Why would you post something like this?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zoller

Of all the posts you could have "chimed in" on, you pick THAT?

Dawg, we're WAY past that nitpicky, purposefully obtuse, "erm ackshually, did you know the technical definition is..." bla bla bla bull**** lol

We're now at the point where we can openly discuss COMPLETELY ethnically cleansing every single Palestinian. Forcibly removing them and sending them to... I dunno, Egypt? Honestly, who cares right? As long as they aren't in Israel anymore.

The sooner you stop with that disingenuous crap, the sooner we can start talking about REAL solutions. Maybe even, dare I say, final?

It would not be forcible. Trump will just tell them, that the world will no longer provide them with 500 trucks of aid every day. If they want to get it, they should move to wherever he says. The aid will be directed to that place instead and they would get it there. Those who want to stay, can stay. Just don't expect a truck of free food every three minutes anymore.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Zoller

I don't think the people in charge care about what the Palestinians want.

Check this out



Roger, do you REALLY think anyone cared if the Jews wanted to leave their homes to move to Palestine?

You know, if ANYONE could pull this off, it HAS to be the Jews. They have real-world experience in moving millions of people from one place to another. They've done this before; they can do it again. But this time, they FINALLY get to be the ones who aren't moving.



Oh my goodness dude nooo . The stereotypes. Why would you post something like this?

I literally quoted UN report, that was meant to be pro-Palestine.